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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • January 17, 2018, 02:31:09 AM
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Author Topic: More on the AK-47...  (Read 6577 times)

lakerssportsfan

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  • Posts: 90
Re: More on the AK-47...
« Reply #30 on: September 21, 2008, 08:53:14 PM »

Mr Wagner,
In the recent issue of Black Belt Mag (sept 08) in your High Risk article you state in the weapons and the law article:
"I own a couple of legal "assault rifles" 2 AR-15s and an AK-47,which is the terrorists weapon of choice"

And you asked where this fact comes from.

Wagner repeated a generally agreed upon statement as reflected by the quotes & links that will follow. If you look at the context in which he said it, it is clear he did so without making a reference to any specific group, act, or time frame. So saying that AKs were not used in 9-11 does not disprove it any more than saying not everyone in Canada speaks French would disprove the  statement that French is one of the major languages of Canada.

You've chosen to take exception to it based on Wagner's credibility problems without considering the validity of the statement itself.  Again, I am not a supporter of his. I just took an exception to your comments on the AK.

Even the AK's designer acknowledges that the weapon is the terrorists assault rifle of choice. But I guess you know more than him, Jim:

"Designer regrets AK-47 is terrorists' weapon of choice":
http://www.signonsandiego.com/uniontrib/20060612/news_1n12rifle.html

The AK declared the terrorist's weapon of choice:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/arts/main.jhtml?xml=/arts/2007/07/05/bohod101.xml

According to AK-47: The Weapon that Changed the Face of War that Hock previously mentioned. "It has become a mainstay of armies and terrorists alike, and a universal icon of revolutionary upheaval."

"If Vietnam had paved the way for the Kalashnikov as an icon of liberation, Munich would be the first signpost on the road to its incarnation as the terrorist’s gun and that of the Palestinian terrorist in particular.”
AK-47: The Story of a Gun by Michael Hodges (antigun book and not all that much info--don't buy it)

"The most popular firearm in third world countries and in the hands of terrorists is most
certainly the Kalashnikov AK-47 and its variations."
 Guns in Combat. Edited by Bishop and Donald.

"Originating in the Soviet Union over half a century ago, the Avtomat Kalashnikova (AK 47) assault rifle has emerged as the most popular weapon among terrorist groups."
An Encyclopaedia Survey of Global Terrorism in 21st Century by R.K. Pruthi

All of your arguments have been non-sequitor, barely intelligible, and have nothing to do the point you are trying to make. It's as if someone were to say that the Swiss Army has had some very fine rifles and another person were to object citing the fact that the Swiss have not been at war in hundreds of years. The fact that Switzerland has not been at war in hundreds of years is not germane to the quality of the longarms they have issued. 

Since you asked about Obama and AKs, and I know you like my pictures, here's a picture for you that appeared on the cover of the New Yorker:

« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 08:56:50 PM by lakerssportsfan »
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Benjamin Liu

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  • Posts: 489
Re: More on the AK-47...
« Reply #31 on: September 21, 2008, 09:02:20 PM »

Slightly off the direction of this thread but still on topic regarding the original quote, why do we call the AR-15 by its proper name and not an "M-16," yet we still refer to semi-auto Kalashinikovs as "AK-47s?"  I have a MAK-90, not a true AK-47.
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lakerssportsfan

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  • Posts: 90
Re: More on the AK-47...
« Reply #32 on: September 21, 2008, 09:44:58 PM »

Slightly off the direction of this thread but still on topic regarding the original quote, why do we call the AR-15 by its proper name and not an "M-16," yet we still refer to semi-auto Kalashinikovs as "AK-47s?"  I have a MAK-90, not a true AK-47.

AK-47 or "AK" has become a generic name to refer to a class of firearms that look and operate similarly. Even AKMs and AKM style guns are often referred to as AK-47s even though they are not. Its a different model gun even though it is the same caliber and looks similar.

The AR-15 is the name that Colt later came to designate the civilian semiauto version of the M-16 which sold in large numbers. So it became known by a name of its own. The first AR-15s were actually select fire.

If you look at other companies that are making semiauto civilian ARs, people often refer to their guns as ARs, even though they have their own model numbers.

Or people call them M4s because they have a shorter barrel and collapsable stock, even though they are not selectfire like a true AR.

This can make things very confusing with the gun debate because some people who are not familiar with firearms or AKs in particular believe that you can walk into a gunstore and buy a select fire AK as easily as you can buy a leveraction deer rifle. And antigunners try to exploit this belief. The fact that the AK gets declared the terrorists weapon of choice really doesn't help matters.
« Last Edit: September 21, 2008, 09:56:42 PM by lakerssportsfan »
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JimH

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  • Posts: 2020
Re: More on the AK-47...
« Reply #33 on: September 22, 2008, 07:29:01 AM »

Lakerssportsfan,

You and Jim Wagner are Correct.

As a Druken 6th Grader who is now also being told
"All of your arguments have been non-sequitor, barely intelligible, and have nothing to do the point you are trying to make."

I have nothing more to ad to this discussion,debate.

I have made my point and you have made yours.

You continue to post events that happened prior to the mass use Car/truck bombs and other IEDs.

For informational Purposes:

In the Middle East Car Bombs had been used as weapons of Assassination until the CIA decided to help train the Afghan Freedom Fighters fight the Soviets at CIA run training camps,assisted by Pakistan ISS Instructors inside Pakistan 1980.

The reason this was done was so that the then Freedom Fighters did NOT have to engage the Superior Soviet Military in close quarters warfare with use of AKs and other close in weapons.

1983 Began the Use of Truck /Car and IED use against American Targets by Osama Bin Laden in Beirut.
(the start of our training returning to haunt us)

Perhaps the Truck Bomb in Pakistan and the Car Bomb in Yemen were a Truck and Car loaded with Aks and rounds,LOL.

I agree the AK is the most popular weapon in the world as is found in Many countries which conduct Terrorism.

Sorry I do not meet your standards of Discussion or debate Professor,it is Professor isn't it.
(hey do you use this site to ask question to get info to use in your writings ?)

What are you researching now?
Must have something to do with the question on what members of the board carry and use to protect themselves and their homes, Hey?

I am sorry I do not use so much research and THEORY in my discussion for your liking.

Thanks for the Discussion.
(sorry it has NOT changed my mind on what I know to be the facts)

This discussion has been very telling though.

LOL

Thank You

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