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[Hock]

This has like...utterly dropped off the USA and world radar?
What is the scoop?

Hock

[sifu007]

Still around but just in their training groups, not much of seminars going besides Tom Kier who teaches every year in France I believe. But it seems they did better some years ago know it is just their tight group I guess.

[Professor]

The old man was talented.   The kids were nuts and took it to an extreme.


 -- gone.

[Milldog1776]

They're kickin' it old school with Carmen San Diego. 

[Benjamin Liu]

I looked at their site a couple years ago and IMO their prices are enough to drive people away, especially the renewal fees for instructors.

[noload]

Like everyone else they've gone tactical.

http://sayoctactical.com/

[Hock]

Yes, I could tell by the rubber flip flops and the baggy, beach boy pants they have all kinds of tactical.

Hock

[Professor]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgvHdrvlzqw

 


The old man would be PISSED.

[Hock]

Some old talk....
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,944.0.html

I got some private emails on this subject and the consensus was that Sayoc has become

- overwhelmingly REALLY expensive (instructorships $5,000 a year?)
- overwhelming (unneccesarily so) doctrine and tons of requirements
- uncomfortable, and over-the-top traditional-like rules of operation
- overwhelming personality problems (of which I don't know and don't care to know about)
- for my tastes...no knife ground fighting program?

Just some gossip?
Hock

PS...by the way I liked the video clip...entertaining and smartly titled "choreographed" to counter any of the never-ending complaints about watching "out of context" video clips

[grlaun]

Yes things like:  Clean my school for free or do this for the master for free - teach for free and still pay tuition.   The same old BS...

[Hock]

Well, I'd heard that the sons were going to branch out into a more full Filipino system, like the dad, which I thought would be a good idea, because the dad had a full, good system. But I guess not?

This a shame because there needs to be some fully fleshed out...

hand,
stick,
knife,
double stick,
stick and knife

...you know, Filipino systems out there with some name-brand popularity.  Inosanto is so diversified. Remy has passed away. Ernesto is not returning to the major scene. Leo Gaje becomes more ...unstable and harder to work with... I guess we need to support people like Felix Valencia and The Dog brothers - those kinds of people - to keep that general FMA genre/concept alive.

Hock

[Milldog1776]

Felix is good people!

[Edgedweapons]

Well, I'd heard that the sons were going to branch out into a more full Filipino system, like the dad, which I thought would be a good idea, because the dad had a full, good system. But I guess not?

This a shame because there needs to be some fully fleshed out...

hand,
stick,
knife,
double stick,
stick and knife

...you know, Filipino systems out there with some name-brand popularity.  Inosanto is so diversified. Remy has passed away. Ernesto is not returning to the major scene. Leo Gaje becomes more ...unstable and harder to work with... I guess we need to support people like Felix Valencia and The Dog brothers - those kinds of people - to keep that general FMA genre/concept alive.

Hock

I agree!

[Joe Hubbard]

Sayoc Kali to me has always been a bit of an enigma; actually more like an enigma wrapped in a riddle.  What really surprises me is that so many Reality/Combatives boys give so much credence to the claim that Sayoc was this real-world combatives knife system.  Oddly, Pekita Tersia receives similar credibility. 

I attended a Sayoc seminar in the UK where the head honcho guy was surrounded by his six instructors like they were running close protection on him.  I had arrived at the seminar late and didn't hear the before brief where people were instructed not to stand behind the Grand Poobah.  When trying to see a technique that he was teaching, I went to stand behind him where one of his body guards pushed me out of the way and...wait for this, pulled his training blade on me!    I shit you not!  I have never seen so many convoluted drills that make your head spin.  But what really blew me away is how so many of the local London guys thought this stuff was the hard core real deal. 

At the end of the seminar, Tom Keir taught an hour extra showing all the practical applications of their Transition Drill.  I paid 20 extra pounds for him to show me ten combat scenarios that Hock would have showed in the first twenty minutes of one of his seminars.  I just find these Sayoc guys a little odd and a lot complicated with very little to do with real world knife fighting.

Out

Joe

[Benjamin Liu]

What really surprises me is that so many Reality/Combatives boys give so much credence to the claim that Sayoc was this real-world combatives knife system.

That's not surprising to me.  As with anything, the person who comes up with the best maketing for a concept, preferably before others, usually is seen as a top authority.

I've not seen anything of their system aside from the movie "The Hunted," so I'm writing about the concept in general, not this system specifically.

I've seen some of the most popular knife and videos, past and present, and IMO a few of them were either bad or just OK.

There have been several threads on the top "gurus" on combat/defense psychology, a topic that has been relatively ignored for decades.  People like Grossman and Siddle are for the most part the only ones who wrote best-sellers on the subject, so they would be big names an authorities no matter what the content of their books.

I just finished the popular "must read" book so many people are raving about, the "Gift of Fear."  There is some info useful to people who never studied or trained in awareness, but IMO the book is just a lot of padding and possibly a subtle ad for his business, and the useful info could be given on one page.  I'm pretty sure this is the book Jerry Van Cook was referring to in "Real World Self-Defense" as being mostly worthless but the useful info could be described very quickly, which he then did in his book.  Even so, I've heard and seen lots of people in RBSD and martial arts highly recommend this book.