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[Wardog]

 I use the concept of JKD... a number of styles and use what works best for me. I have never trained in a style called JKD because it doesn't exist.

[Milldog1776]

I use the concept of JKD... a number of styles and use what works best for me. I have never trained in a style called JKD because it doesn't exist.

Why would you say that JKD does not exist?

[Wardog]

 Ok, JKD as Lee conceived it doesn't exist. JKD as the cash cow( is or was thought to be) people involved with Lee turned it in to exists.  Even Inosanto only billed it as JKD concepts, I believe. Not as a style. He does claim Jun Fan Gung Fu. Since it was never really a set of techniques to its' creator, it can't really be a set of techniques now.

 

[Milldog1776]

Interesting.

I wonder, would you kindly cite where your authority to make such statements derives from? If you have never trained JKD, and are not affiliated in any way with any JKD associations...where does your information on this topic come from?

Are you citing magazines, other instructors, websites, etc.?

[Wardog]

 Simple question:  Did Bruce Lee create JKD as a fighting style with set techniques or as a concept of studying everything and taking what works for you?  Answer: Concept.  Thought that was common knowledge.

 

[Milldog1776]

That didn't answer my prior set of questions, Wardog.

[Wardog]

I have not invented a "new style," composite, modified or otherwise that is set within distinct form as apart from "this" method or "that" method. On the contrary, I hope to free my followers from clinging to styles, patterns, or molds. Remember that Jeet Kune Do is merely a name used, a mirror in which to see "ourselves". . . Jeet Kune Do is not an organized institution that one can be a member of. Either you understand or you don't, and that is that. There is no mystery about my style. My movements are simple, direct and non-classical. The extraordinary part of it lies in its simplicity. Every movement in Jeet Kune-Do is being so of itself. There is nothing artificial about it. I always believe that the easy way is the right way. Jeet Kune-Do is simply the direct expression of one's feelings with the minimum of movements and energy. The closer to the true way of Kung Fu, the less wastage of expression there is. Finally, a Jeet Kune Do man who says Jeet Kune Do is exclusively Jeet Kune Do is simply not with it. He is still hung up on his self-closing resistance, in this case anchored down to reactionary pattern, and naturally is still bound by another modified pattern and can move within its limits. He has not digested the simple fact that truth exists outside all molds; pattern and awareness is never exclusive. Again let me remind you Jeet Kune Do is just a name used, a boat to get one across, and once across it is to be discarded and not to be carried on one's back.

– Bruce Lee


   That is a Lee quote. He does, unfortunately, use the word style but he clearly does not mean it is a system, organized institution, or set of techniques. That is one quote. But it pretty much says it all.

[Wardog]

 Oh, and to answer your question, my authority is derived from the authority.

[Milldog1776]

Then do you believe that there is a difference between doing JKD and say........doing karate, Filipino MA, and Thai boxing?

In other words....are there core techniques and strategies that Bruce Lee focused on or can you just do whatever you want and still call it JKD?

[Wardog]

 He trained what he had found to be best at the time. But, in my opinion, you can do anything that WORKS for you and call it JKD. In the sense that you prescribe to the philosophy and/or concept of JKD. To say your style is JKD would be incorrect. Lee had core techniques he used and strategies he focused on but they only subscribe to the JKD concept because they worked for him best at the time. He would have shed any and all if he stumbled across anything more effective for him. So, there are no set techniques or strategies just the best ones for the person.

  In a sense Hock is a major JKD proponent. He shows you techniques he has found to be best. He would never suggest you not use a technique that works for you, if it wasn't of his teaching. Now in his system you would have to rank using his techniques but his philosophy is pure "use whatever you can kick ass with consistently".

[Hock]

Not to interupt, but I would never tell anyone how to fight. They must experiment for moves based on their own size, shape and strength and potential siyuations.

That is why our big combat scenario tests are made up by the test taker.
My job is to just expose a student to the most effective, universal basics. I advise. I mentor. I watch. I encouraage and coach. 

A student who becomes and instructor needs to know all these basic things to properly teach other students, so that these students can select their favorite things, and in case they too want to teach.

There really are some generic, universal,

                       "must-knows/must see/must experience"

and certainly the counters to these moves! You might not like them for yourself, but you certainly need to know how to escape them.

I am not a JKD expert, even though I have stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last weekend(for you foreigners, thats a USA TV comercial joke). But I am really unable to assess this JKD arguement.

Hock

[Milldog1776]

Inspired by Hock, I no longer teach JKD. Like he says, I teach "Generic" self-defense applications, running folks through the bare necessities of surviving conflict.

However, I do disagree with Wardog. There are key components to JKD that many people simply do not understand if they have not trained it. Wardog, I do agree that for the most part JKD is conceptual...however without these key components there is no such thing as JKD.

Intercepting Broken Rhythm, The Hammer Principle and maintaining the Fighting Measure in the sense that Lee trained his instructors are key elements. Without understanding them and utilizing them...you are just doing what works best for you, as Wardog states. 

[Wardog]

Intercepting Broken Rhythm, The Hammer Principle and maintaining the Fighting Measure in the sense that Lee trained his instructors are key elements.

without these key components there is no such thing as JKD.-KM



 There is no such thing as JKD as a style so these things are irrelevant. If a technique works better for someone than any of those then it would be substituted.  I understand that you trained in JKD and that for the style(which never should have existed and really does not as tied to Lee) they are essential. I will not argue that. My argument is that as a system with the name JKD, heavily tied to Lee, it is fraudulent. He never intended it as a style. If you call it My Kwan Do and make those specific techniques the base, fine, but it never should have been called JKD because it isn't.

[Milldog1776]

You and I will have to politely disagree. It must be called something.

[Wardog]

 Mr. Miller  -we agree to disagree.  Have a nice evening.