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Author Topic: JKD?.... Discuss  (Read 25081 times)

whitewolf

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #30 on: July 01, 2011, 08:14:54 AM »

I am not a expert in JKD but i would imagine that if he was still around he would have experimented with what is going on these days   in various arts and he would have  started blending in aspects from them into JKD-as most all arts these days are changing with the times. He might even gotten into close quarter combat movements.
We will never know will we..........WW
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Kentbob

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #31 on: July 01, 2011, 09:01:13 AM »

I think when thinking about what JKD would be like today if Bruce were still around, it's important to remember that Bruce Lee could make darn near any technique successful.  Not that I think he would have added a lot of outlandish and esoteric techniques, but things would still be different.  For example, while he was around he made the straight lead one of the basic elements of hand techniques in JKD, and as Keith has pointed out, the straight lead is probably one of the harder punches to do correctly.  After reading Tim Tackett's two Chinatown JKD books, I believe that JKD has been distilled into a series of drills for effectively teaching the techniques that are most prevalent in JKD, which I see as the straight lead, the shuffle kick, and the eye gouge or eye attack.  Modern practitioners have already added knees and elbows, and headbutts (vunak) to this basic mix, as well as a few kicks. 

The more interesting question is what would Bruce's personal style look like today?

What I really want to know is if he would have competed in UFC 1.


Kent
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whitewolf

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #32 on: July 01, 2011, 01:47:13 PM »

Kent - that is a great question-i am not critizing Bruce at all but did he ever do full contact during his time? He has millions follow his style now-would they have followed
if he got in the ring and his techniques did not work?  Again we will never know....its like asking who would win if Alli and Lewis could fight??? My bet it would be the better trained and conditioned fighter when they steped in the ring. Same for Bruce if he was alive.    WW
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Hock

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #33 on: July 01, 2011, 05:15:43 PM »

For the record, Bruce lee sparred his whole life. He constructed a lot of things out of sparring.

What would be do today?
Good question.

Hock

JimH

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #34 on: July 01, 2011, 06:22:05 PM »

Wasn't Bruce Lee upset with what had become of his art ?
Wasn't he closing his studio's when he died ?
I would imagine he would have worked on keeping up his individual form of JKD and moved with his age to keep what would have been useful for him,disgarding the rest.
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noload

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #35 on: July 01, 2011, 07:21:40 PM »

Then again, maybe he'd have cashed in on his fame and art, and would have opened a string of BL JKD franchises. Would he have kept things moving or standardized his art and missed the entire MMA thing? So many possibilities...
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wisdom

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #36 on: July 01, 2011, 09:37:50 PM »

And I always say maybe Bruce would've got sick and tired if all of it and decided to open a dance studio....we just won't know...maybe he would've went off his nut and began to go the supernatural metaphysical  part of martial arts....stuffs fun to think about....
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #37 on: July 04, 2011, 04:37:23 AM »

I own a copy of Bruce Lees yellow jumpsuit.I yell just like him when I hit the bag.I wear those big ass Kenpo gloves with the fat fingers.I wear my electric muscle contracting thing when I am not training.I have all esoteric sayings:Be like a board and water doesnt hit back and empty your cup of cheese.I only practice the moves demonstrated in Bruces films and The Green Hornet.This is Real JKD
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #38 on: July 04, 2011, 06:23:18 AM »

BRUCE LEE/1981:I am returning to my dance roots,specifically the cha cha and rhumba.I will only teach cha cha and rhumba.Daniel Inosanto and Taky Kimura will take over the day to day operations of the Bruce Lee Superkids Martial Art Schools.
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whitewolf

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #39 on: July 04, 2011, 03:31:39 PM »

JohnS-it appears we are going from a serious thread to sillyness-lets get nack on track
JMHO- ww ;D
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 05:28:18 PM by Hock »
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noload

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #40 on: July 04, 2011, 06:08:15 PM »

In a way it could happen.
Bruce gets to be the "old guy" on Dancing With the Stars, after selling gym memberships or BL branded exercise equipment on HSN, after starring in the show Martial Law, after the Kung Fu movie craze died down.
Given time, injuries and where ever his ego took him (I mean that in a good way) there's no telling what he'd end up doing. Some good guesses yes, but certainty?
« Last Edit: July 04, 2011, 06:10:11 PM by noload »
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #41 on: July 05, 2011, 02:06:21 PM »

BRUCE LEE sparred his whole life...Leo Giron and other escrima masters fought against the Japanese...Why does he get cred as the end all know it all of fighting.Movie star.
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Kentbob

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #42 on: July 05, 2011, 05:49:56 PM »

I think certain individuals on this forum need to review their posts before they hit the "post" button.  I can't quite figure out what exactly you were trying to say, JohnS.  This isn't Twitter, you have more than 140 characters at your disposal.


Kent
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Canuk

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #43 on: July 06, 2011, 09:06:11 AM »

I think what he is saying is that others, who actually fought in a War and life and death situations have not recieved any credit for thier actions, while Bruce who ( as far as I know) was never in a life and death situation and has recieved endless credit for his way of doing business.
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JimH

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #44 on: July 06, 2011, 12:38:55 PM »

According to the Tracy Kenpo Blog week 3 of 4:
Bruce and Tracy were Friendly.
Bruce told the following things to Tracy.
Bruce had many street fights starting at around 14
Bruce DID NOT win all his fights.
Bruce NEVER Knocked anyone out.

The Monday following the Bruce / Wong Man Jack fight,Tracy was told the following about the fight,BY BRUCE:
No One Won the fight.
Wong Man Jack Made Bruce Look Bad.WMJ had No Class.
The  fight lasted about 25 Minutes.
Many times both men were on the ground and neither knew how to take advantage of the situation.
This is what prompted Bruce to study some Grappling  from Bill Paul,a friend of Tracy's.
...
Bruce Lee was a self made Instructor  of Wing Chun,that led to his meeting others and seeing what they had to offer and adopting that which worked for him,from that developing an encompassing base art and then telling others to create their own art of JKD,as he,Bruce,did.
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #45 on: July 07, 2011, 11:21:17 AM »

Bruce Lee was was a legit Cha cha champ.Thats it.People want to believe that the man in the films was capable of doing the stuff he did in the films for real such as fighting more than one person...People believe in him so much they study Jun Fan gung fu so that they can fight just like him.Bruce was never a competitive martial artist...why does he have this bad ass rep.
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Dawg

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #46 on: July 07, 2011, 12:53:39 PM »

I own a copy of Bruce Lees yellow jumpsuit.I yell just like him when I hit the bag.I wear those big ass Kenpo gloves with the fat fingers.I wear my electric muscle contracting thing when I am not training.I have all esoteric sayings:Be like a board and water doesnt hit back and empty your cup of cheese.I only practice the moves demonstrated in Bruces films and The Green Hornet.This is Real JKD

Bruce Lee was was a legit Cha cha champ.Thats it.People want to believe that the man in the films was capable of doing the stuff he did in the films for real such as fighting more than one person...People believe in him so much they study Jun Fan gung fu so that they can fight just like him.Bruce was never a competitive martial artist...why does he have this bad ass rep.

The answer to the question in your last post is in the body of your previous one; he has a "bad ass rep" because some people want to be like him so bad they have a copy of his yellow jumpsuit and try to emulate his movements, mannerisms and even try to sound like him.

So which is it? Do you really have a beef with a martial arts icon who has been dead over twenty years or are you secretly taking Cha Cha lessons (in your yellow jumpsuit, of course!) so you can be more like him?

For the record, one of my favorite martial arts books was "Tao of JKD". I treated that book like it was a Bible or something back in the 80's. Good stuff.
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #47 on: July 07, 2011, 01:14:30 PM »

Kent is right.I do need to write more clearerer...In the first one I was being sarcastic.Discussion about Bruce Lee belongs in Unsecret Lives of Walter Mitty...why isnt Cha cha part of JKD?Bruce Lee~the 13 Questions.
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Dawg

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #48 on: July 07, 2011, 02:27:52 PM »

Kent is right.I do need to write more clearerer...In the first one I was being sarcastic.Discussion about Bruce Lee belongs in Unsecret Lives of Walter Mitty...why isnt Cha cha part of JKD?Bruce Lee~the 13 Questions.

Of course, Kent is right; he's a genuine superhero! ;D I appreciate you taking his advice and taking the time to make yourself "more clearerer" in your post.

Hopefully, you have something besides the fact that Bruce was fond of some particular dance steps before you label him as a "Walter Mitty".

I have a terminal case of "Whiteboyitis" myself, and I'm often a little jealous of those who aren't afflicted with my illness and are capable of smooth moves on the dance floor. Just not so much that I question their legitimacy as being capable martial artists because they like to dance.

BTW, I'm not a JKD guy, or affiliated with any such organization, so I don't have a dog in this fight. But I am curious as to why you would bash on a dead guy, who by most accounts was a highly skilled, innovative and non-traditionalist martial artist back when that was NOT the cool or popular thing to be?

Got a problem with JKD? Practice something else. Got a problem with Bruce Lee? Turn the channel when one of his movies come on. The man seems to have left behind a wonderful legacy, according to what I've been able to read, concerning not only his art, but also his students, family and friends.

What exactly is your beef with the man?

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whitewolf

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #49 on: July 07, 2011, 03:36:49 PM »

Beef might be in actuality- Jealously-? One never knows what lurks in the minds of men- The shadow knows- ;D-WW
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #50 on: July 07, 2011, 06:05:47 PM »

Bruce Lee:ranked in Wing Chun,never worked as a bouncer,cop or security guard.The one fight we CAN prove he was in ended in a stalemate...Then he re evaluated is fighting style,incorporating a lot of Western boxing which stresses being fit.The man who sparred a lot has the legend of being a real fire eater and he was in the films...and on the dance floor. cha cha cha!This is the ways I sees it.If you disagree go study OJKD and Jun Fan Gung fu,be like water.If you feel I am wrong I am then...I am an amazing square dancer.Amazing.
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Kentbob

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2011, 07:04:11 PM »

In my opinion, Bruce Lee was not just a talented martial artist and reasonable actor.  From reading articles by people who knew him and trained with him, and from reading "The Tao of Jeet Kune Do" I feel that he was also someone who was trying to make the world a better place.  I feel that JKD and kung fu are just as much about lifestyle choices as they are about fighting.

He was in fact a dynamic martial artist, and intense competitor, an innovator, and a decent movie start.  I don't believe he ever intended to become the legend he is today, nor do I think it would have happened if he had lived or if his death hadn't been quite so mysterious. 

Some people claim that JKD is the be-all, end-all of martial arts, and that's fine.  JKD, Bruce Lee, and Dan Inosanto did revolutionize the way a lot fo people train, by helping them to see the advantages of broadening their focus and thus broadening their abilities.  There are plenty of other systems out there that are more appropriate for different people, such as myself who is more concerned about the battlefield.  That does not lessen the significance of JKD and the multi-style approach.

Your nearly incoherent posts about Bruce Lee and what he did or didn't do come off as somewhat childish and immature.  I know there are a lot of people in the martial who take issue with the way Bruce Lee is idolized, and that's fine too.  However, he was a genuine martial artist, even if he did or did not attain official rank in any system.  And from all accounts, he was also a decent guy.  Not anything like the lying scumbags that end up in the Walter Mitty thread.

Kent
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JohnS

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #52 on: July 08, 2011, 08:24:34 AM »

Kent.It wasnt me trying to be childish.I was trying to be sarcastic...I will admit though that you are right when you say that BL does not belong in the Walter Mitty thread.That is a special place for special scumbags.I was wrong to group BL in with Wagner and company...You did a Bruce Lee on me.You were like water and look I emptied my cup!
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Canuk

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #53 on: July 08, 2011, 09:33:23 AM »

I attened a training seminar run by James DeMile (who referred to himself as Bruce's Number 1 student"

Of course Bruce's name came up and people wanted to hear about the "real" Bruce Lee. James didnt actually paint a great picture of him as a person. He said that Bruce was a short skinny guy that had one leg significantly shorter than the other leg and was blind as a bat. James also stated that Bruce was arrogant and aggressive always had something to prove.

James even stated that at one point Bruce had a problem with him on a personal level and that he (James) had a nine millimeter on him in case things went bad.

Also said that Bruce was the fastest thing he had ever seen.
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JimH

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #54 on: July 09, 2011, 08:31:13 AM »

For those interested in Bruce Lee,the Good and the BAD.
A book about Bruce Lee by mr Bleeker:
http://www.4shared.com/get/xrBW6PqA/Tom_Bleecker_-_Unsettled_Matte.html

It will be an eye opener for those who believe Bruce to be a nice friendly,clean living,happily married guy,lol.
It is closer to what I have heard from people who knew Bruce have said,than the BS sold to the public to make money.

For those who hold the ultimate work of Bruce Lee,"The Tao of JKD" to be the be all and end all read chapter 15.
(the book is almost all lifted from others books and were Bruce Lee's notes of referance,with no credit by the writers,(not Bruce),to any of the original writers  or their books)
The chapter also asks how Bruce became the be all and end all of martial arts.
Recreated History,but not the level to be in the Walter Mitty section.

Hey I am not a Bruce Hater.
I was well into the Martial arts by the time his ideas were in the mags and his movies came out.
I was into Bruce Lee and bought all his  posters,books and still buy materials about him and JKD.
But if we look at him in total and absorb what is useful and discard the rest,as he told us,then we must know the whole story,not just the publc consumption,for profit only,life story.
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Cyphre

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #55 on: July 13, 2011, 12:55:19 PM »

I'm kinda with JimH on this one. I don't actually have anything against Bruce Lee. However, I don't have anything for him either. What I do have though is a hardon for the truth! (oohh yeahhh!)

Even with my passing knowledge of the martial arts I know for  a gold-plated fact that Lee was about 60-70 years behind the trend for mixing martial arts. DDLR and Bartitsu had already done that in the late Victorian/Edwardian period in Paris and London. Most of what is effective about JKD is actually DDLR anyway. And with even my knowledge of pugilism/boxing manuals you can see how ripped off the Tao of JKD is. Christ, lots of what's in oriential martial arts is in medieval European fechtbuch actually written by people who used to kill each other with swords and by hand for real.

How many actual verifiable fights did Lee have? (win or lose)
Did he actually have any TMA qualifications?
Did he have a TMA contest record?
Was he basically just an actor with great physical performance skills?
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Mesmeriser

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #56 on: August 09, 2011, 03:30:32 PM »

isnt tom bleecker who wrote that kind of negative book about bruce  linda lee's(bruce's wife/widows) ex?

just saying...  probably not very objective.  though im sure theres some truth to what he has to say.
i dont really care either way, i think bruce is kickass  but hes not the end all

later
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JimH

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #57 on: August 10, 2011, 07:46:42 AM »

Yes Bleeker did marry Linda Lee .
He wrote his book based on information he was given access to in Linda Lee's home and in Bruce Lee's office.
He had access to Linda's memories,Lee's notes,books,medical records,every thing as Bruce and Linda supposedly kept EVERYTHING.
This is where the info for his book comes from.
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EricBentzenDGC

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #58 on: August 10, 2011, 01:31:02 PM »

 :( it wasn't just about taking the best technique and using it.. without getting into a bit thing.. Intercepting, destructions, was big here to... We all have 2 legs and arms.. I think you are missing the point and need to do some more research or train with someone qualified to teach you the right answers u seek.
« Last Edit: August 10, 2011, 01:35:48 PM by EricBentzenDGC »
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: JKD?.... Discuss
« Reply #59 on: August 12, 2011, 01:32:52 AM »

Good post Eric!

I bought and read Thomas Bleeker's book back in the 90s.  An important thing to point out about Bleeker is that he did marry Linda and very quickly Linda divorced him.  Bleeker was very disgruntled about the divorce and then he cashed in on the Bruce Lee brand name and wrote that book.

His book is based mostly on speculation, but the basic theme is to point out that Bruce wasn't a monk who sat under a waterfall- who is?  He was a normal guy.  Many who read that book were shocked that Bruce experimented with anabolic steroids.  These are the same people that still insist their favorite athlete hasn't done the same thing.  These people are ignorant.  I have even had arguments with people who insist that bodybuilders like Ronnie Colemen are natural athletes, LOL!

Bruce was consumed by his training and research.  His whole ethos was being the best he could be and always maintaining the highest standards.  People who are driven by the highest standards and who end up as the leaders in their field often have personal problems- why should he be any different.

My take on that book is Bleeker was a punk who was dumped by Bruce Lee's wife.  That was his meal ticket and it was taken away.  I wonder if Tacket knows anything about this guy?

Joe
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