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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • January 18, 2018, 03:39:48 PM
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Author Topic: Now for something Stupid!!  (Read 2083 times)

Milldog1776

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Now for something Stupid!!
« on: July 26, 2005, 01:25:06 PM »

I have a student who is a police officer. He recently kicked a suspect armed with a knife in the crotch. He is now in trouble and facing suspension because..."Our department does not teach kicks".

Isn't that crazy!?!

I was proud of him though. Especially when he told his Lt. that next time he'd just shoot the guy.  ;D
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jmech

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #1 on: July 26, 2005, 09:42:45 PM »

Does his Dept.'s Defensive Tactics course have a "not trained but justified given the fact situation" concept?  Several State DT courses have this or a similar concept in them.  That would definately cover this case.  Even if the course does not have this, If he chooses to fight the punishment, he may want to look into using this concept as his justification.

When I went through my defensive tactics instuctor course, our instructor told us "remeber, the defensive tactics course is for when you are arresting someone.  If you are fighting for your life, tactics go out the window and you do what you gotta do."  To which I replied, "finally, someone who teaches defensive tactics the way they should be taught".

Joe Mech
http://www.defensequest.com
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

BA

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2005, 09:37:01 AM »


  Stories like this really get me mad and make me wonder a couple things.  Who teaches defensive tactics for modern police and limits tactics such as kicking?  For one you limit the officers ability to defend themselves and two your setting them up for major discipline or lawsuits. If an officer gets in a situation where they have to use forbidden techniques they have to make a choice between two things saving their own life our legal troubles. Thats an easy choice for most.
   The second thing I think about is this, any department or administrator in a department that does not support an officer for defending themselves in a justified way, doesnt deserve to be on the job. On top of that whoever made the crazy rule should be the one that has to face that officers wife and kids when something major happens on the job, such as death or major injury.

  BA
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Shogun79

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2005, 06:54:01 PM »

I don't know the department or the State that officer works in, but I feel for him.   Even here in Ohio, we have some departments that are behind the times.  We use a contiuum that is based upon the subjects actions.  I personally have never heard of a contiuum that does not have kicks/empty hand tactics in it, that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.  I would recommend the officer fight it.  Unless there is new case law, our standard is "What a reasonable officer would do, given the same circumstances, situations, etc.  Hopefully, they will come into the 21st century with their way of thinking.
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"He who passively accepts evil, is as much involved in it, as he who helps to perpetuate it."

Ryan

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #4 on: July 29, 2005, 11:56:30 AM »

Actually, that's a federal judgement, handed down by the Supreme Court.  All departments should be following the "objectively reasonable" doctrine.

http://www.healylaw.com/cases/graham.htm
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"Don't hit at all if you can help it; don't hit a man if you can possibly avoid it; but if you do hit him, put him to sleep."--Theodore Roosevelt

Wardog

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #5 on: October 10, 2005, 08:01:02 AM »

Yes, kicking him in the nuts is bad. Just shoot him next time. They train that don't they? I can't believe a police force would chastise a guy for defending himself. As fars as I am concerned if you pull a weapon aggressively(attacking someone) you are a supreme jerk off and deserve whatever you get. Whether a policeman gives it to you or someone else does. YOu can't kick because they don't train kicking. That is pathetic. No wonder the criminals are winning!!!
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Hock

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #6 on: October 16, 2008, 12:40:53 PM »

In Remsberg's book Blood Lessons there is emotional story of an officer and his partner involved in a traffic stop shooting with a real, hard core criminal.

Back-up arrived and then the usual desk-jockey admin people arrived. One of these carpet coppers, with a stern face,  marched up to the officer involved in the shooting and asked, "did you have your hat on?"

Did you have your hat on? Did you have your hat on?

More than likely if have been in the police business long enough you have been under some utter, dipshit, fucknuts, pain-in-the-ass, self-important, deluded, clown morons like this....

Wouldn't you just love to just draw your gun and shoot his little blue topper right off the top of his pea-brain skull and ask him right back,

                      "Oh my, where's your hat now, Lt. Turd Ball?"


Hock
« Last Edit: October 16, 2008, 05:43:02 PM by Hock »
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Remo

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Re: Now for something Stupid!!
« Reply #7 on: October 20, 2008, 10:25:42 AM »

I have a student who is a police officer. He recently kicked a suspect armed with a knife in the crotch. He is now in trouble and facing suspension because..."Our department does not teach kicks".

Isn't that crazy!?!

I was proud of him though. Especially when he told his Lt. that next time he'd just shoot the guy.  ;D

WOW!  I need to shake his hand!!!
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"TOLERANCE is the virtue of a man without convictions"  G.K. Chesterson
 

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