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Author Topic: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight  (Read 6583 times)

Hock

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25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« on: January 20, 2009, 11:30:41 AM »

The development of Internet email has been a huge boon to the passing of endless reams of jokes. Some of the jokes are pretty funny and the funniest ones of all are those that come dangerously close to the truth. One funny email about shooting makes the circuit every few months, and is worth an examination for its basis in truth.

From:     Dick Fairburn
Sent:     Thursday, January 8, 2009 12:36 PM
To:         Recipients Undisclosed
Subject: FW: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight

1. Bring a gun. Better to bring two guns – and all of your friends who have guns.

TRUTH – How many investigative and administrative-type cops do you know who don’t wear a gun everyday at work? I know a lot of them. And waiting for backup whenever possible goes without saying.

2. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and some friends with long guns. Explosives can substitute for a few friends, but not all.

TRUTH – A long gun is a much better choice for a gunfight 99 percent of the time. This one reminds me of another good joke—an old time Sheriff showed up at the church social wearing his revolver. An elderly lady asked, “I see you brought your sidearm, Sheriff, are you expecting trouble?” The old lawman politely replied, “No ma’am, if I was expecting trouble I’d have brought my rifle.”

3. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun the caliber of which does not start with a "4."

TRUTH – I’d venture to say more than half of U.S. officers now pack something that starts with a “4,” either a .40 or a .45. This is a dramatic change from the past preponderance of .38’s and 9mm pistols. This reminds me of another good one: A Texas Ranger was once asked why he carried a .45. He replied, “Because they don’t make a .46.”

4. Use a gun that works every time. "All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket."

TRUTH – Reliability is much more important than accuracy.

5. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice or three times. More is better. Ammunition is cheap. Life is expensive.

TRUTH – Pistols are really pretty feeble in the overall scheme of firearms. More than one shot is cheap insurance. More than 5 or 6 shots might require explanation.

6. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss.

TRUTH – Wyatt Earp said it best. “Fast is fine, but accuracy is final.”

7. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly.

TRUTH – These days the difference between most shooting stances almost requires stop-frame video to recognize the fine distinctions. Shooting from a stationary position makes you an easier target - learn to shoot on the move.

8. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. Lateral and diagonal movements are preferred.

TRUTH – Several studies prove your survival chances increase with distance – so use it.

9. In ten years, nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They'll only remember who lived.

TRUTH – History records the winners and buries the losers.

10. If you aren't shooting, you should be reloading, communicating and running.

TRUTH – Training Guru Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch puts it this way, “If you’re not shootin’ you should be loadin’. If you’re not loadin’ you should be movin’. If you’re not movin’, somone’s gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick.” Nobody ever accused Clint of being bashful!

11. Accuracy is relative: most combat shooting standards will be more dependent on the “pucker factor” than the inherent accuracy of the gun.

TRUTH – This is how an officer who hits center-mass 100 percent of the time on the range can miss with every shot on the street. Effective gunfighting comes much more from mental preparation than physical preparation.

12. Someday, someone may kill you with your own gun, but they should have to beat you to death with it, because it is empty.

TRUTH – Always carry at least one reload with you, even off duty. A backup gun is also a good idea.

13. Always cheat, always win. The only unfair fight is the one you lose.

TRUTH – They don’t pay you to fight fair, they pay you to win!

14. Have a plan. Then have a backup plan, because the first one won't work.

TRUTH – Always practice self-visualization training during field contacts to program different possible scenarios onto your “hard drive.” Your computer (brain) can sort through several possibilities in the blink of an eye, if you’ve already thought them through.

15. Use cover or concealment as much as possible.

TRUTH – Get in the habit of mentally cataloging possible cover positions on every call.

16. Flank your adversary when possible. Protect yours.

TRUTH – Tunnel vision can kill you – break that focus and scan around you – 360 degrees when possible.

17. Don't drop your guard. Especially not after you’ve just “won.”

TRUTH – Yep, see #16.

18. Always tactically reload and threat scan 360 degrees.

TRUTH – Always top off your weapon during a lull in the action. These last three overlap, but that’s OK, they’re important.

19. Watch their hands. Hands kill. In God we trust ... everyone else keep your hands where we can see them.

TRUTH – If some trainer didn’t preach this one to you since day one, you’ve been working in a vacuum.

20. Decide to be aggressive enough, quickly enough.

TRUTH – Fight like your life depends on it, because it does!

21. The faster you finish the fight, the less shot you will get.

TRUTH – The police officer’s Golden Rule...Do unto them before they do unto you.

22. Be polite. Be professional. Have a plan to kill everyone you meet.

TRUTH – Practice pre-planning and visualization. They’ll never know what thoughts your benign smile may conceal. This one was recently spotted by a reporter in a Marine barracks in Iraq. The reporter thought the sentiment was terrible. That makes the concept all the more practical.

23. Be courteous to everyone - friendly to no one.

TRUTH – Everywhere, and all the time. They may be hiding equally evil thoughts behind their benign smile.

24. Your number one plan for personal security is a lifelong commitment to avoidance, deterrence, combat, breaking contact and de-escalation.

TRUTH – Avoiding a gunfight is always a better option, when available. Don’t let a macho attitude get you into a fight that didn’t have to happen.

25. Lady Luck is fickle. She changes her mind at will. Never rely on luck.

TRUTH – Luck comes in two distinctly different forms. Take good luck whenever it comes your way, but develop the skills necessary to overcome bad luck.

Finally, here’s a free one I picked up from the late (and great) Lieutenant Bill Black of the Littleton, Colorado Police Department (a key player at Columbine). During a TEMS medical presentation at a conference, when the topic turned to the treatment of “sucking chest wounds,” Bill leaned over and whispered: “As far as I’m concerned, all chest wounds suck!”

TRUTH - No truer words were ever spoken. I hope the huntin’s great on the other side, Bill!

To whoever out in cyberspace first created this list, Great Job!

Stay Safe!


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 


 Dick Fairburn has had more than 26 years of law enforcement experience in both Illinois and Wyoming. He has worked patrol, investigations and administration assignments. Dick has also served as a Criminal Intelligence Analyst, and as the Section Chief of a major academy’s Firearms Training Unit and Critical Incident Training program. He has a B.S. in Law Enforcement Administration from Western Illinois University and was the Valedictorian of his recruit class at the Illinois State Police Academy. He has published hundreds of articles and a book titled, Police Rifles.
 

whitewolf

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2009, 06:30:50 AM »

Hock- excellent- #23 really applies to me- I am unarmed over here. WW (ELB)
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gematriot

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #2 on: January 21, 2009, 07:03:20 AM »

Quote
This one was recently spotted by a reporter in a Marine barracks in Iraq. The reporter thought the sentiment was terrible.

Perhaps reporters should carry around a spare typewriter for when it "hits the fan"
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #3 on: January 21, 2009, 08:51:24 AM »

Dissect Comment Number 1:

1. Bring a gun. Better to bring two guns – and bring all of your friends who have guns.
TRUTH – How many investigative and administrative-type cops do you know who don’t wear a gun everyday at work? I know a lot of them. And waiting for backup whenever possible goes without saying.

Me?
I'd say a truth,  yes. Supported by many. Supported by the old-school, "Two is one, One is none" theory.  Yes, there are some REMFs and ADMIN police types who go about gunless. But they leave the guns in their cars?

Hock

michael

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #4 on: January 21, 2009, 08:52:30 PM »

If I am gunless, then I am on a plane. No other time will I be gunless. ;D
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #5 on: January 22, 2009, 09:52:14 AM »

Dissecting Comment 2

2. If you can choose what to bring to a gunfight, bring a long gun and some friends with long guns. Explosives can substitute for a few friends, but not all.
TRUTH – A long gun is a much better choice for a gunfight 99 percent of the time. This one reminds me of another good joke—an old time Sheriff showed up at the church social wearing his revolver. An elderly lady asked, “I see you brought your sidearm, Sheriff, are you expecting trouble?” The old lawman politely replied, “No ma’am, if I was expecting trouble I’d have brought my rifle.”

Me?
Cute church joke and all...but long guns don't always work in close quarters and take longer to move about. Sometimes can't move them around at all! There is no perfect gun, just the best one best for the situation. Ask a tunnel rat in Vietnam if he'd like a pistol or a rifle. That "99% of the time" is a lot of time.

Tunnel Rat defined(for you draft dodgers out there)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunnel_rat

Hock
« Last Edit: January 22, 2009, 02:21:07 PM by Hock »
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arnold

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #6 on: January 23, 2009, 06:43:47 AM »

Walk softly and carry a large caliber weapon. And wear purple! And gold trim! ::)
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2009, 09:06:03 AM »

Dissecting Comment 3


3. Do not attend a gunfight with a handgun the caliber of which does not start with a "4." TRUTH – I’d venture to say more than half of U.S. officers now pack something that starts with a “4,” either a .40 or a .45. This is a dramatic change from the past preponderance of .38’s and 9mm pistols. This reminds me of another good one: A Texas Ranger was once asked why he carried a .45. He replied, “Because they don’t make a .46.”

Well, I guess. I prefer my .45 1911...sure, but I have carried lesser calibers too and manufacturers do improve bullets. Hope not to get into all those ballistic arguments.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Dissecting Number 4

4. Use a gun that works every time. "All skill is in vain when an Angel pisses in the flintlock of your musket." TRUTH – Reliability is much more important than accuracy.

Yeah,  I reckon so.


Hock 

arnold

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #8 on: January 28, 2009, 09:36:47 AM »

Any gun is better than no gun. Of course the same could be said about brains and there's a whole shitload of liberal idiots running around without any.
And the new Taurus Judge with the 3" 410 shotshell and 45 long colt......ohhhhhhhhh, I gotta get me one of those!
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you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2009, 10:36:33 AM »

Dissecting Number 5

5. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice or three times. More is better. Ammunition is cheap. Life is expensive. TRUTH – Pistols are really pretty feeble in the overall scheme of firearms. More than one shot is cheap insurance. More than 5 or 6 shots might require explanation.

The general rule is to keep shooting unil the enemy has fallen. A while back there some vet (British? I can't remember) advocating "double tap, stop and access." Fact is you should be naturally accessing through the whole gunfight. Shoot till its over. There is no magic, arbitrary number.

Hock
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #10 on: February 04, 2009, 10:53:09 AM »

Dissecting Number 6...

6. Only hits count. The only thing worse than a miss is a slow miss. TRUTH – Wyatt Earp said it best. “Fast is fine, but accuracy is final.”

Okay, I get the basic, primitive message. But there are deeper considerations.
When someone says this, ask them for the definition of "suppressive fire," a fire and maneuver tool used by one or more citizens, soldiers and cops.
Suppressive fire is essentially a bunch of missed shots in the general area of the bad guys which cause them to duck or move.

Blasting gunshots at someone ordinarily makes humans flinch and causes distraction. I have been shot at and I know the nasty, squirrel-ly feeling.

There is another one of these "laws" of firearm combat from another list -

                               "Suppressive fires -- won't."

and that is a prep term for worst case scenarios. Like you shouldn't count on it completely. Of course. But many of the principles of fire and maneuver are often based on laying down a field of missed, suppressive fire. That's a worst-case warnings like this gem - "If your attack is going really well, it's an ambush."

And did Wyatt Earp say that? I am not sure. Might have been Buffalo Bill or Wild Bill Hickok. But not sure on this.

Hock

Professor

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #11 on: February 05, 2009, 07:01:37 AM »

The original "quotes" still stand.   Suppressive fire need to be put down appropriately.   Some of the times, stopping the attack is enough.  Some of the time it's about the killing.

Accuracy makes that difference.    Goblins are given the inherent edge by their willingness to do evil.
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #12 on: February 05, 2009, 08:05:25 AM »

What concerns me with these types of rules-lists are how the rules are interpreted. Especially in the USA by the legions of concealed carry permit people who largely exist in an untrained state of denial bliss. By the odds and the grace of god do they go.

As Rule 6 suggests....they truly do exist in the myth of the stand-off/shoot-out duel. And therefore WHAT better person to quote than western hero Wyatt Earp. "Only hits count, parder'."

To a naive novice this may distort reality and cause him NEVER to consider suppressive fire. Things taught in militaries but never mentioned at:

                             "Fat Louie's CCW Permit Class and Pizza"

...every Tuesday night. The Pizza is free but soda refills cost a $1 each. You know Fat Louie! His great grandfather was a cop once and he went to high school with a guy who joined the Army. He's the closest thing to an expert we got in Camelot, Indiania.


Hock

Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2009, 09:55:29 AM »

Dissecting # 7


7. If your shooting stance is good, you're probably not moving fast enough or using cover correctly. TRUTH – These days the difference between most shooting stances almost requires stop-frame video to recognize the fine distinctions. Shooting from a stationary position makes you an easier target - learn to shoot on the move.

This is probably true. And throws range shooters and their entire formats into a tailspin of doctrine madness. The old school advice is this, "combat is shooting from awkward positions," and it is often dangerous for groups of people to shoot live rounds on a firing range from simulated, awkwad positions.

Only time with simulated ammo in real environments seem to bring this out.

Veterans of our Gun Level One Stress Quickdaw course
http://www.hockscqc.com/shop/gun_combat_counter-gun_combat_tactics.html
experience incoming stress while drawing and HAVE to move or get hit.

Over using live rounds and live fire, severely limits gun-fighting training. Remember my formula

One hour of gun training....
         15 minutes on the range. 45 minutes with sims in interactive training

Sure this makes common sense, but it virtually destroys the range shooting model so deeply embedded in our society and mindset and "gun business."

Gun range shooting only SUPPORTS sims intercative shooting. I tell ya' it turns the industry and training doctrine upside-down. It is also cheaper and safer.


Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2009, 11:10:41 AM »

I love SIMS, its great and im a big beliver it. My only "dig" is this. I seen folks using Simmuition and such luck in force on force senarios using dry wall as cover. When talking to them after they say lame things like "im great, never got hit" I then remind them that bullets go through things while a paint marker doesnt. Bad habits can be built if your not careful
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2009, 12:26:30 PM »

Why God made good coaches.

There's alway going to be such problems. If we adhere to the principle

                                      "Reducing the abstract"

as much and as often as possible. It helps.

Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2009, 12:31:05 PM »

yup
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2009, 09:38:29 AM »

Dissecting #8

8. Move away from your attacker. Distance is your friend. Lateral and diagonal movements are preferred. TRUTH – Several studies prove your survival chances increase with distance – so use it.

Studies? What studies. Studies done without sims, marker bullets or paintball. And is this based on the stand-off quick draw premise? What? The myth of the gunfight duel?

Greater distance helps when the fight starts at a greater distance, but distance is simply not always your friend. There is a certain close range when charging in, interupting the quick draw, then drawing your gun and shooting yields a  higher percentage of survival.

Not close enough for a charge? Too many times, paper-target, range shooting experts run backwards while drawing. The other shooter simply and effortlessly fires in his straight line! You are close or afar? You're still in his straight line.  Moving to the "sides" might help...a little bit. Remember the great sniper line.

                "Go ahead and run. You'll only die tired."


Gun god dinosaurs need to get in the sims ammo game and see what really happens when moving, thinking people are shooting back. 

Hock

Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2009, 09:22:29 AM »

...and let me addd one more thing about distance.

Studies are incomplete collections - conclusions may be wrong.
Some studies may not collect shootings/wounded - conclusions may be wrong
Some studies may not collect shooting and MISSES - conclusons may be wrong
Most studies do not collect info of guns out-but NO bullets fired - and may be wrong.
Most studies do not co0llect info or gun carrying-no draw. Why no draw?

If you study ONLY shootings/murders, and even the shootings/wounded,  and derive tactics, you are missing huge blocks of tactical information. In fact, guns are drawn way more times than they are shot. Why were there no shootings in this matters? What did the gun-puller do, to shut down the potential shooting? How does that relate to distance?

Hock
« Last Edit: March 11, 2009, 07:44:04 AM by Hock »
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JKDish

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #19 on: March 11, 2009, 04:17:27 AM »

Now ait Hock, you agreed, I see with "Only hits count" and cited a good quote from Earp; but you've told me personally that it's not altogether true. That shooting and missing has a profoundly disturbing psych-effect on the intended target. And throws 'em off a bunch too. I have been sbot at ONCE-AND ONLY ONCE-and can attest to the truth in what you've told me regarding only hits count.


"Awful hard to shoot at someone, 'specially when someone's shootin back at you"

Gene Hackman as Lil' Bill in Unforgiven.
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Brian S

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #20 on: March 11, 2009, 06:58:07 AM »

Dissecting Number 5

5. Anything worth shooting is worth shooting twice or three times. More is better. Ammunition is cheap. Life is expensive. TRUTH – Pistols are really pretty feeble in the overall scheme of firearms. More than one shot is cheap insurance. More than 5 or 6 shots might require explanation.

The general rule is to keep shooting unil the enemy has fallen. A while back there some vet (British? I can't remember) advocating "double tap, stop and access." Fact is you should be naturally accessing through the whole gunfight. Shoot till its over. There is no magic, arbitrary number.

Hock
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From what I understand even the double tap is out for British police officers.  They are told to stop and assess after every shot, though most privately admit that they stop and assess within the blink of an eye..... so that an untrained onlooker might just mistake it for a double tap.....  ;)
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shastana

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #21 on: March 11, 2009, 10:58:57 AM »

two in the chest, one in the head...tactical reload...tap tap tap.
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #22 on: March 19, 2009, 06:17:07 AM »

Dissecting Number 9. In ten years, nobody will remember the details of caliber, stance, or tactics. They'll only remember who lived.

That might have been true in the 1950s. In todays world, the gear, gun and caliber is important, not just in the marketplace of sales, the improvements of gear and performance, but in training sessions in tactical symposiums, argued about in the Pentagon and tossed around in simple squad room and gun store gossip. Its vital to know how the fool, the thug or the pro did or did not do what, with what. Who, what, when, where, how and why?
I know well how my small revolver will perform as well as my 1911. It goes with the territory. To belittle tactical history and details of caliber, stance or tactics in past gunfights is a sheer fool's folly.

Hock
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 09:22:42 AM by Hock »
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2009, 11:21:27 PM »

Dissecting Number 10....

10. If you aren't shooting, you should be reloading, communicating and running.
TRUTH – Training Guru Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch puts it this way, “If you’re not shootin’ you should be loadin’. If you’re not loadin’ you should be movin’. If you’re not movin’, somone’s gonna cut your head off and put it on a stick.” Nobody ever accused Clint of being bashful!


I don't know. Seems to me all gun fights are very situational. depends on whats going on?

Hock

Ed Stowers

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #24 on: May 13, 2009, 10:55:56 AM »

I remember when I was going through my academy training out in Grayson County, TX and I was just out of the military, the instructor had us doing buiilding search scenarios.  In one of them, they had positioned a perp in a dark building and as we played the what-if Q&A game, the instructor asked what would be the best way to respond if the suspect just began firing at you from the dark.

I think my answer was, "One of us will take cover and lay down suppression fire while the other maneuvers to attack from the flank."

The instructor looked at me with a very sober expression.  "We don't do suppression fire," he said seriously.  "We don't do artillery, bombs, or rockets, either."

I thought that over a second and realized that we were screwed.  "Then there is no 'good' tactical way to do this," I replied.  "It's gonna suck."

Then the instructor grinned and slapped me on the back.  "Welcome to police work," he said.
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Hock

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Re: 25 Recommendations for your next gunfight
« Reply #25 on: May 13, 2009, 02:37:34 PM »

THAT is funny and sad. But a great story. ANd you know his line was rehearsed huh? Too cool a response to make up.

But at least he knew what suppressive fire was.
Most of the police people I worked with really had no idea.
Post-Nam people did and Iraqi War people did. Very few in between.

Hock
 

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