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[Crafty]

From time to time i always come across students that are afraid to get hit when sparring can anyone give me any ideas to help students overcome this obstacle.

[whitewolf]

Crafty- couple thoughts for you to try-

1-have student hold pads-you jab cross hook uppercut easy at first

2-speed it up a little but still easy

3-switch and have student do same-get them to concentrate on what they are doing instead of worrying about being struck

4-then you and student put on gloves-have them attempt to just block with plams and then they return a strike

5-finally try a minute of contact with each other(dont try and knock their block off )

6-add a tactic of them stepping in double grab to back of your head and they knee
to a pad you are holding

Might help-gives a woman or timid student some confidence-thats what they need

WW (ELB)

[Joe Hubbard]

I'd love to hear Arnold's take on this. 

My remedy:  go train with Arnold or spend a few years as Hock's stunt man- they'll sort you out!  The first time I met Hock he thrusted a training blade into my gut so hard that it sent me airborne.  That seminar was the first of many where I was Hock's stunt man including the knife DVD he did for Budo.  At the end of one seminar I did with him, some guys came up to me and said they had lost count at a 125 times Hock had slammed me to the floor (there were no mats) and they told me this at lunch!!!  There is an old adage- you have to feel it to appreciate it.

[juszczec]

First thing I teach people is how to get out of the way - moving progressively from a static attacker to one throwing completely random attacks.

Then I keep them doing that until its obvious they are comfortable with it and its time to add attacking/countering methods.

I also use drills where there's the opportunity for incidental contact.

Whenever contact happens, I immediately point it out to the newbie and tell them "See.  You/me/that person got hit in the head/body/somewhere else and didn't die.  It might not have been the highlight of their day, but its not that bad."

Still, the level of contact people are willing to take is a completely personal thing.  So, there's only so much you can do.

Mark

[Dawg]

My remedy:  go train with Arnold or spend a few years as Hock's stunt man- they'll sort you out!

Wow! Whatever happened with not trying to learn how to swim in a tsunami?

I agree with Mark, only I use lots of drills with incidental contact. I also have my students hit the striking shields on a regular basis; feeling that impact through the shield gets them used to the idea of getting hit. I use Hock's wall drill to help develop confidence in their blocking abilities; the more confident they become in their defensive capabilities usually results in more confidence during sparring.
I also make sure "newbies" get to spar with someone who will keep the sparring at the "newbies" level ( which usually means myself!). When the other students see me doing this, they usually follow my example.

I have one older fella with me right now who, when he started with me eight months ago was very fearful of getting hit (he had some corrective surgery done to his nose previously). Now, you'd never know he had a concern over receiving any kind of contact. Although, now he's always concerned about hitting some one else too hard (C'mon, that's just downright funny! He's the Anti-Arnold!).

Time, patience and persistence will usually overcome the "Fear Factor".

Once they start getting cocky...then introduce them to Uncle Arnold!




 

[ShooterMMA]

Many good drills 

I made up 1 drill for my fighters, to make them engage in brawl. Its not something revolutionary, I called it 3 step box. You have only 3 steps 1 left 1 right and 1 frontal, and you simply brawl without making attention if you get hit, just punch. Can be done with protective equipment, but better without (just gloves).

And it make very good for my competitors (no more fear from punch).

[Tank2]

I think it is great to be afraid of getting hit! It makes your defense better!!!

incidental contact

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You have never had "incidental" contact!!!! Give me a break.

[Dawg]

I think it is great to be afraid of getting hit! It makes your defense better!!!

Although being fearful of getting hit might motivate you to improve your defense, an overly defensive posture is usually not very desirable from either a sparring or self defense perspective.

When sparring, using strikes to maintain your opponents distance, to close the distance, or to set up finishing techniques is much more desirable than letting your opponent continue to attack you and dictate the nature of the battle while you continue to maneuver defensively. Be willing to take the leg kick or the body shot to possibly finish the fight with a head shot.

In a violent altercation, changing the relationship of the conflict is essential in ending the situation quickly and in your favor. The combat clock is tick, tick, ticking away as you bob and weave and evasively dance around. Strike aggressively and frequently at targets that will diminish your assailant and finish him/them or allow you to escape. There's always a curb to trip over or some other unforeseen event that Mr. Murphy likes to present when the fecal material hits the oscillating blade. Instead of being fearful of being hit, you should be putting fear in the heart of your assailant. Hurt the S.O.B. and get out of there!

incidental contact

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
You have never had "incidental" contact!!!! Give me a break.

Shhhhhhh...
 

[Milldog1776]

Try "The Blink Drill".

I use this one if I catch myself starting to blink or flinch while sparring or seeing it from my students/fighters.

Put on 16oz to 18oz boxing gloves
Stand in front of your partner
Take turns punching each other in the face (lightly  )
Keep your eyes open and don't flinch

Great Drill!!!

[Joe Hubbard]

Wow! Whatever happened with not trying to learn how to swim in a tsunami?

No, getting into a real fight with Arnold and Hock would be the tsunami.  

But seriously, of course Hock's system is replete with countless drills to acclimate your guys for contact training from zero to hero.  The thing of it is, is that you have to experience these drills in person with a real person who can evaluate what drill is suitable to enhance each person's different goals.

A lot of it is answered in conditioning drills which I am sure Dean Goldade could describe from Kaju.  He showed me a cool progression of these body conditioning drills which I have used with my students.  They basically desensitize the individual to fear and pain and help the learner to deal with the chaos part with a winning attitude.

P.S.  Yes, the blink drill- great drill!  I used it last night on one of my students who has a proclivity for blinking and flinching when people are throwing shots at him.  Very effective! 

[Canuk]

pffft just hit them hard and often

[shastana]

Basically, build it from most extreme/worst scenario first.  Headgear, then remove head gear (keep mouth guard) mid-way thru each exercise below.

1-"handcuff" them, put them in the corner and two trainer partners with gloves haze the crap out of them...lightly, until fear drops off and they focus on just taking it.  Teach them to tuck chin, tighten jaw, roll punches, and contract torsoe muscles in defense.

2-"handcuff" their hands and bind feet (duct tape, zips) and lay on ground with two or more trainers kicking them lightly (might want to pad their heads?). Do this until they no longer lay in fetal position and are cycling thru defensive positions

2-then let them go one-one with handcuffs against a wall, let them only move their head and torsoe to defend, dode, roll off punches

3-let them use their hands and feet to shield and move head and torsoe to evade, while in corner, one-one.

4-practice counter punching (stop hit) while being hit, one-one, both trainer and trainee exchanging blows lightly, control speed and maintain focus.

5-let them at each other with headgear full power.

 

[Joe Hubbard]

Shastana, you bring new meaning to "student retention."

[shastana]

We used to this kind of stuff for FUN, like mini-competitions with stop watch running!  And if You get a couple young guys into it, it becomes a right of passage.  The art of taking it.

-for the reaally drunk or stupid, you got to fence with stinging nettle plants while wearing only shoes and shorts!

-I should add, the final test would be to pepper them point blank with airsoft rifles.  Right boys?

That should take care of your fear factor 

[Milldog1776]

-I should add, the final test would be to pepper them point blank with airsoft rifles.  Right boys?

That should take care of your fear factor 

I don't know...that AK of yours took my breath a few times. Shooooo...I think I'd rather get punched in the face.

[Crafty]

Thank you for all the help

1.The power low kick

2.neck strenghting

3.Jab tag

4.low kick sparring

5.low kick sparring with high line defence

6.low kick the boxer

7.lean back drill

8.elbow the boxer drill

thats this month theme all ranges empty hands and weapons again thanks guys i play with that and see what i come up with.

[whitewolf]

Crafty- Great drills-but what if we are talking about a middleaged man/lady who comes for self defense training-what do you start with then-If you start with the worst sanario-might lose the student??
WW (ELB)

[juszczec]

I think it is great to be afraid of getting hit! It makes your defense better!!!

There are different degrees of being afraid.

I agree not wanting to get hit is a good thing. 

Falling to pieces emotionally because you got hit is what we're trying to train people out of.  Making the assumption that, during training, if they get hit once then the fight is over is another thing we try to train people out of.

Being so afraid of getting hit that, during training, you constantly adopt "flight" mode out of sheer fear of getting hit leads to you learning NOTHING.

incidental contact

HAHAHAHAHAHAHA

You have never had "incidental" contact!!!! Give me a break.
[/quote]

Have you ever done a drill where the intent is NOT to make contact but due to clumsiness or being tired or you screwing up or the other guy screwing up that contact happens?  That's incidental contact.

Glad I was able to brighten you day with a good laugh.

Mark

[Dawg]

Mark,
Tank wasn't laughing at you; he was being sarcastic because of my use of the term "incidental contact" in my post. Whenever one of my training partners get a little boo-boo during practice, I usually blame it on incidental contact.

Unfortunately, Tank's not going to appreciate your explanation of what incidental contact is, because I usually find a way to blame the injury he received from me on himself due to the last part of your explanation:

Have you ever done a drill where the intent is NOT to make contact but due to clumsiness or being tired or you screwing up or the other guy screwing up that contact happens?  That's incidental contact.

So, it's just a little joke in our training group that we blame injuries on incidental contact, and it's always the fault of whoever it is that got hurt (if they hadn't screwed up, they wouldn't be hurt, right?). I appreciate your explanation of what incidental contact is...it sounds exactly like mine!

Of course, it probably doesn't help that I usually blame all mistakes on Tank:
If Tank gets hurt...it's Tank's fault.
If Gary gets hurt...it's Tank's fault.
If I get hurt...it's always Tank's fault!

Who luvs ya, big guy?

[Tank2]

Sorry Mark, I guess I should pay better attention to the words used in other posts.

My remarks were totally geared to my training partner, Dawg.

His "incidental" is only a cover up for creating pain in his "partners"!!!
And yes, it is always MY FAULT!             LOL

[ShooterMMA]

I think you should not be afraid of getting hit, you should be careful not to get hit.
Person must be capable to engage in fight under the punches, its the only way.
If you are afraid of getting hit there is no way you can win. Then the only solution is to run away.
In my opinion teaching someone self defense is not just doing techniques and drills, its changing his mental stage that he can survive under the all things that he is afraid of.

I agree with Dawgs first post
 

[juszczec]

Tank and Dawg

Sorry for overreacting guys.

I read the post during my first cup of coffee and hadn't absorbed enough caffeine.

Mark

[Dawg]

Crafty- Great drills-but what if we are talking about a middleaged man/lady who comes for self defense training-what do you start with then-If you start with the worst sanario-might lose the student??
WW (ELB)

El Lobo Blanco,
Great question! I agree that those are great drills, but I prefer to start people out with learning skills to defeat the most commonly occurring or likely of attacks first; then as those skills develop to expose them to the worst case scenarios. Give them some tools to get comfortable with and then build upon those skills in a progression.

For example, last week I had a whole handful of new students show up for class. I taught them basic blocks with the forearms, along with thrusting forearm strikes. Then we did thrusting palm heel strikes to the chin. This took about 20 minutes.

Then we worked the "Military chin jab takedown" for about ten minutes. Everybody seemed to have a handle on it pretty good after performing the takedown about 5-7 times.

Set up my advanced students in a gauntlet, that the newbies had to use thrusting forearm strikes to get through and then perform the takedown they'd just learned against a hooking punch from Tank or myself. By the third time they'd "survived" the experience, everybody was pretty pumped up. Then I had the newbies hold the shields and the advanced students ran through. They, however, had to use at least three strikes after blocking a hooking punch before performing any takedown they wanted. The newbies were set up so they could see how the advanced students performed against myself or Tank. We were able to let the newbies run through the gauntlet a couple of more times, and there was a marked improvement in most of them.

In one hour they learned:
basic blocks
two basic strikes
one basic takedown
how it felt to actually hit something
a little bit about how it felt to be hit

And most importantly:
Yes, Virginia, you can learn how to defend yourself!

The two ladies that were there appeared to have had a great time.
I don't know if I took them from "zero to hero" (loved the way you used that earlier, Joe!), but you have to start somewhere.

[Dawg]

Tank and Dawg
Sorry for overreacting guys.
I read the post during my first cup of coffee and hadn't absorbed enough caffeine.

Mark

No problem. Personally, I have zero social skills until my second cup of coffee. Of course, Tank says I have zero social skills. Period.

[whitewolf]

Dawg-good thoughts and training sylabus listed from you-
Tuesday evening I have been asked to give a "street related self defense class to
25 female expats

We are using a oudoor area that has mats so we can do some ground related work

Here is basically what Ill be going over

1-Defense against choke from front-two methods of release
2-head lock release from side-standing and then kneeling
3-how to use palm to strike into chin face area and then claw attackers eys by a "Rip method"
4-how to grab rear of head spin and repeated knee strikes
5-2 methods of release from being attacked on ground
6-And this should be interesting=ladies will sit back to  back and at signal turn and without getting to feet attempt to pin the other and hold- (no biting ,clawing, scratching
break anything-just want them to get the idea of "contact"
I have done this before  and it workls out well as most have never wrestled/grappled  or
been on the ground -ever..
7-lastly disussion/question on the mental aspect of stepping into "Violence" and what it really entails.

If you or anyone has a comment I have to Tuesday to add something -

As for rolling with Tank or you-that is a shocker in its self-what do you guys weigh combigned -a zillion lbs- =WW (ELB)

[Dawg]

WW,
Thanks for the kind words.

I do have a few comments/suggestion/questions on your upcoming class:

What's the time frame?
Most classes are approx. one hour in length. If that's all the time you have, you might need to prioritize your lesson plan to make sure the info you feel is most critical is definitely covered. My classes are only an hour long and I rarely cover everything in my outline. Seminars offer you more flexibility when it comes to time.

Do you have any help?
Since you appear to already have an idea that you'll have 25 ladies show up, you probably need someone as a "dummy" so you'll have an even number of pairs for your ground drills. An odd number will end up costing you some time and extra effort. You want to be able to go around and observe and assist, not get tied up with one person or group of three. Also, an assistant would be better for you to demonstrate your techniques on; you never know how people are going to react and demonstrating on untrained folks can result in some unfavorable (although sometimes entertaining ) outcomes. Doesn't have to be a martial artist, just someone you can trust to do what you ask them to do and react in a way that will help demonstrate how the technique is supposed to work. 

Lastly, discussion/question on the mental aspect of stepping into "Violence" and what it really entails.
For what it's worth, I think this is the most important part of your lesson plan and should be listed as "#1" not "#7". Use Hock's "Who, What, Where, Why, When" questions to get your class thinking about who their potential attackers might be, where the attacks are most likely to occur, when the attacks would most likely happen, what can happen if they don't defend themselves (here in the States, it's generally accepted that being a victim at crime scene "A" has a much lower mortality rate than being a victim at crime scene "B"), why should they bother with a self defense class...you get the idea. Then, in between techniques, you will probably want some lecture material handy to substantiate the material you're teaching (personal anecdotes are great here; just think about all the stories Hock told at the Meridian seminar!). Plus, you might want to consider that most of the attendees will probably be out of shape and will need a breather in between training topics. It is unlikely that any of them will be Jarheads that have physically trained every day of their lives for over 70 years!

Good luck!
Remember to have fun; if you're not having any fun, it's highly likely that your class isn't either!

[Dawg]

As for rolling with Tank or you-that is a shocker in its self-what do you guys weigh combigned -a zillion lbs- =WW (ELB)

For your information, our combined weight is only 1/2 a zillion pounds!
We're trying to get down to 1/4 a zillion by July for Hock's knife seminar.

[whitewolf]

Dawg-good info-as usual -Wow for a swabby that is unusual-
1- Class is one hour and 15  minutes in length
2-I will use the 5  W's at the start as well as talking about violence
3-No sir-no breaks -i am going to work their buts off-
4-I am looking for a helper-i would like a female if possible
5-if this works out I am going to try and instruct at the MWR on base
6-We have had a few assaults lately in  the city so this comes at a good time
Good luck on going down to 1/2 a zillion lbs-say hello to Gary and Tank for me
Whitewolf (ELB)

[Crafty]

whitewolf great point 

[grlaun]

I concur with Joe.  Be a stuntman for Hock or Arnold.  That'll sure as sh*t sort you out!  When you've been one as long as the Hub & I nothing really phases you (except uncontrolled people - they piss you off...!)...

Here's my take on that.  I make them put on the gloves and we just box.  I tell the person they are on offense and he/she are to hit me & if he lays off the hitting during the round I'm going to throw a jab or a front kick at the student.  I also make it short for training sake, to build endurance.  I slowly lengthen the round to 3 minutes. This brings out aggressiveness.  I simply cajole them if the student doesn't strike me - the trainee is allowed to throw anything by the way.  I do this over a period of weeks until the person feels confident with their ability to attack.

The next phase is to enter one round of complete defense on the student's part.  The student is only allowed to defend and not attack.  Boxing only and only 30% power on my part - it increases slowly.  I constantly give positive feedback to better the student's defense and confidence.   Usually this is either the 1st or 2nd round out of 3 - I drop back the time so the student can recover.  As the defense and confidence gets better I increase the time and impact consummate to the person's ability.

Once I can see the student keeps looking at me and is seemingly aware of his surroundings, we start short rounds of sparring.

ALWAYS baby steps - go at the student's pace (with an occassional push - that's your job) and you will build some bad a** fighters.