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[Adventure]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_T0WLoI6pk

[Milldog1776]

Well.....he's wrong.

Do we need to debate this any longer?

[Hock]

Look, this is really all about semantics and Matt “where is he now?” Thornton sounds like he is on the shallow side of the argument. Certainly the sport side with the things he quoted. But his quotes about the judo champion winning the gold with two favorite moves? I have said this exact thing for years and years. Finding your favorite things. Too bad, that the real world is not a judo match. Real fighting, not sport shit, is highly situational. But someone has to be an expert in many things to teach them.

I to believe that fighting is way more like checkers and less like chess for sure. That is partially what Thornton was trying to say. And for over a decade, I’ve preached that I will never tell you how to fight, that selection is your job, your choice through experience and experimentation. We teach. We steer, we coach and you select your favorite arsenal. We have to know a lot so you can know a little. The more time, the more you know.  My entire course is a list of fairly, simple things.  Its just these things have to be listed in some order, somewhere.

When so many people, such as myself even, suggest there are beginners, advanced and experts - that is because in life there are and in every thing. “Rating” a fighter/insturctor is not just how many times you do a simple move over and over again. Being an “advanced person” or an “expert person” includes a plethora of related knowledge, least of which one is time and grade in teaching methodologies as well as teaching many different people of various ages, strengths and shapes. AND situational.  And, advanced and expert people are also schooled in situational problems and solutions like crime and war. Fighting is and should be fairly simple. Fairly. And individualized. These ratings are more about proper experience to be better teachers.

Teachers need to be experts. I don’t know what Matt Thornton will call him himself these days? He’d better be some kind of an expert because he seems to shoot his mouth off like he thinks he is one. If he is not an advanced or expert instructor, why should anyone care to listen to him? If he is worthy, what turning points, what qualified Matt to be in this position to preach and teach?  Those turning points are the benchmarks of advanced or expertise advancements. If Matt can’t name these turning points, then no one should listen to a word he says. Of what value is he, if he is not some kind of advanced, expert? What qualifies him to be listened to? How did he get there?   

But, it really is semantic, and I do understand what Matt is trying to say. He and I would agree on many points. But he is saying this poorly and someone might think he is small-minded and even obnoxious.

And I leave you with one final thought. Who do you think is an expert on “all-things-MMA?” Chuck Liddell or Matt Thornton?  Of course it is the veteran champ Liddell, whose depth and experience in the subject is vast and on so many levels. The difference between the two is the lines between basic, advanced and expertise.

Hock

[mleone]

What he doesnt talk about is how in Grappling their advanced sweeps that are on the ground that take knowing other basics and having a bit more conditioning. Something that needs to be developed.

Its semantics and Im sorry but every system has its own system preservation and every system has its on propaganda.
Its only natural people are to defend what they do, so they have justification.

Just keep on training hard and look at the big picture.
Yes it is true that the basics can win a fight. How ever why not expand your skill set.
But its not always the basics, most of the time its what the opponent does not even expect.

its those unexpected uppercut
Its the finger jab he had no clue about.
Its the Palm strike in the middle of the argument. In the middle of him yelling at you.
Its the least expected..
The unexpected..
Its brining the man outside of his comfort zones..

[Joe Hubbard]

The argument is really centered around the difference of how you train in combat sports juxtaposed to survival combatives.  Oh, it is true that boxers really box when then train; wrestlers really wrestle when they train and BJJ guys really pull off those moves when then train.  Yes, it is true and the progression within all of those sports is to train possessively against a more resisting opponent.  In survival combatives we can't really train striking guys to the throat or for that matter elbowing them in the face and guess the news- MMA guys can't do that either.  So just like the MMA guy, you have to simulate many facets of your training, but done correctly this doesn't devalue the functionality of what you are training.  If Thorton's law of functionality had any merit, it would defy every single military training methodology in the world.  You see, Thorton is really a BJJ guy who teaches a no-belt system.  One of my students trains with one of his affiliates in the UK and I have seen the whole program.  Some of his teaching concepts are cool, but are no different to any BJJ system.  So, you see, Thorton is really breaking that old JKD principle of compartmentalising different arts and never blending them.  He then teaches his 6 o'clock boxing class, his 7 o'clock BJJ class and then his 8 o'clock wrestling class.  The he throws in a bit of Burt Richardson's Battlefield Kali and loosely calls it JKD after a fashion, but the harsh reality is that he is really teaching BJJ.  He's really good at BJJ, but hard for him to set himself apart from the expertise of people like Mario Reiss, Roger Gracie and Daniel Moraes.

[mleone]

Thanks for Shedding Light...
That was a nice point and refreshing...

[Adventure]

Well.....he's wrong.

Do we need to debate this any longer?

huhuhuhuhuh, LOL

[whitewolf]

Interesting  subject-as others have just pointed out in their own way-there is two sides to the coin-the sport side and the reality side-seems if one trains only as a sport  then they would be at a disadvantage in the street-but if while training in the sport side they add the reality part by adding strikes and tactics that would get their mind into the right mind set.
i.e.=you  practise getting to the rear of the opponent-you go into rear strangle
then you repeat the movement but this time you strike the ears with cupping motion -then go into the choke/or kick the rear part of his knee and he falls backward and you
kick temple-the movement to get to the rear is the same the trainee just changes the tactic
In other words the two intermingle
WW (ELB)

[grlaun]

really...?

[arnold]

And then, there is the dark side. Last chapter of the Super Secret Book of Secrets. Get your Rawhide autographed copies while they last!

[whitewolf]

grlaun- just me thoughts bucko- -WW (ELB)

[grlaun]

Wolfie.. not referring to you at all, Marine!  I was simply expressing my opinion of the video.  I like your comments.

[whitewolf]

 no problem brother- u stay safe-

[arnold]

Is your signature hand getting tired yet?

[whitewolf]

Hey Arnold- please explain about the hand- WW (ELB)