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Author Topic: Head Butts  (Read 10174 times)

redcap

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Head Butts
« on: September 08, 2007, 07:06:14 PM »

I am of two minds with the great head butt debate (see Hock's Blog Sept 9).

First of all I won;t argue the medical science angle.  It makes sense that you can cause injury to your brain by smashing your head into someone else's face.  Even if the butt works and he drops and you don;t there is every reason to believe some damage to your brain was incurred.

My thoughts on that point are that the brain and skull etc are designed to take a fair amount of everyday punishment and not suffer serious disability.  However the limiting factor might be "fair amount".  I would concede those who take a lot of blows to the skull on a regular basis are most at risk and of course there are always some who will fall into the classic "eggshell skull" group.

I have used head butts, I have had them used against me (not that bad overall, just stuns you and makes your eyes water, gets your anger up quick too!) and I have seen them used numerous times, even causing knockouts.  In the UK it is almost a cultural rite of passage to nut someone or be nutted and it is arguably more prevalent there than here in Australia.

I have only ever used them as an opener when the target was right there and the risk of missing virtually nil (and never have missed) and I had a hold of him to minimise his chance of escaping or dodging.  Mind you, although it gets their attention and disrupts their thought pattern, I have never used it or taught it as a knockout blow.  Far from it, it is a stunning blow to make their eyes water, bring their hands up to their face and often expose the groin to a knee and momentarily distract them during which you unload other strikes and gainthe upper hand and its all over in seconds.

To hit so hard as to stun yourself or risk knocking yourself out is not how I was taught the blow from my Dad and his Dad.  Counterproductive.  I was also taught not to practise it against pads, bags, shields etc as it is stupid to hit your head against anything unless actually fighting. I am a little dubious anyone actually does practise headbutting using bags and shields.  I mean what are you "conditioning"?  If that is the case then they prove Hock's theory totally correct! Hehehehehe

Using a headbutt in mid-fight, while the fur and claws are flying furiously is not something I would ever consider or teach for the obvious reasons that you now have pretty much no control over the strike once "thrown". If you are grappling and the action pauses and you throw a butt it can easily fall apart.  I tried it at Easter in a stick match and my helmet slipped off mid butt and I butted his helmet with my unprotected head and that hurt!  We only throw the butts mid bout to show "aggression/never give in" and to get the crowd worked up, they love that stuff.  But the risk is so great of hurting yoursef I have to agree totally with Hock that it is dumb to do this in a real fight.

I do think Hock will indeed be ahead of the curve with this headbutt position of his.  I still believe there is a place for the headbutt in your toolbox.  I don;t disagree it can be harmful but so can taking a punch to the face and you can't always avoid that in a fight, either.  (I know, two wrongs don;t make a right and you can choose not to throw the headbutt)  I will continue to include it in my syllabus but with clear parameters of use and without any need to practise the actual contact, just the motion.

As for alternatives, when your opponent is shorter I always tell my troops to grab their neck and ram their face into your shoulder.  This could be a far better option than the butt to the nose anyway.  I also like face ruckles, rubbing the hard points of the head against his face is a great disruptor when grappling.  Cheers Redcap.
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whitewolf

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2007, 11:20:22 PM »

All- I just watched Most Amazing vidios here in Kuwait-one showed a high school wrestler arguing with the referee and he suddenly head butted  the ref in the side of the head in the temple area-it knocked the ref out and now he has damage from it perminently-it was a devestating quick blow and did not seem to  be that hard but it put the ref out....i dont advacate using your watemellon to hit someone elses watermelllon but it does work.. say safe  whitwolf
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redcap

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #2 on: September 09, 2007, 07:36:19 AM »

Reading through the other posts I think a few things become apparent.  First of all, Hock admits he has never used one in a real fight (hope I read that right and am quoting correctly).  This explains to me why Hock is very much on the side of the doctors, most of whom have also not head butted anyone I would presume.  None of this takes away from the veracity of the medical opinion or the common sense opinion either but it explains the adamant position Hock has on the topic.  I think if Hock were to nutt someone he would enjoy the experience as much as Nick and I do.  Nutting, not being nutted.

On the other hand we have people like Nick and myself and that Paul from Glasgow (he commented the city is ruled by the head butt so to speak).  Glasgow is renowned for headbutts!  So is Liverpool in the UK.  They are known as the Glasgow Kiss or the Liverpool Kiss and are a common and favoured opening shot to get the ball rolling. I have seen numerous examples first hand and can direct you to more on You Tube.  As for simultaneous butts and knockouts, no doubt it that occurs.  I have used the old "knock their heads together" trick and that has worked for me when coming up behind a couple of belligerants in the bar etc. 

Our British Commonwealth origins lead Nick and I to also know the headbutt at first hand.  Perhaps that old saying of "knowledge dispels fear" or even "familiarity breeds contempt" applies as to why we don;t rule the head butt out so definitely as does Hock.

That soccer research is a bit moot since one study (which supports the headbutters by the way) is about US soccer players and we all know they are crap and the other is about Norwegian soccer players and they are just as bad and smell of herrings.  All jokes aside the regularity of the head shot has a factor of influence surely?

I stand by my employment of the headbutt as a quick, sharp stunning blow to the nose or as a ruckle when grappling (slow motion headbutt).  I don;t practise the thing and would never break bricks or anything else with my head .  I appreciate Hock's points and position and accept the medical position but I think you can get too much of an educated opinion, as in they look at the worst case and cover their arses.  Cheers Redcap
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #3 on: September 09, 2007, 10:19:31 AM »

Redcap,

You must be doing them wrong if you're not getting knockouts mate.  I've never seen one used by the Zen Do Kai guys (or myself) not fail to drop the other guy like a proverbial bag of...

Here's a youtube clip of a girl knocking a bouncer out cold with one neat, perfectly delivered headbutt.  He was out for a long time apparently. 

www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNJMHLIW96I

If you watch till the end the camera zooms in and you get a bit of a close up.

Yer Uncle Nicky

PS:  I'd hate to be him...can you imagine the ragging he got from his mates and having to live with the shame of being dropped by a woman? :-[
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Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #4 on: September 18, 2007, 12:12:31 PM »

SNELLVILLE, Ga. —  Police are investigating the death of a man who collapsed after being headbutted by an armless man in a fight over a woman.

Snellville Police Chief Roy Whitehead said the two men, Charles Keith Teer and William Russell Redfren, scuffled Monday afternoon in the driveway of a suburban Atlanta home.

Witnesses told authorities that Redfren, who has no arms, kicked Teer, and Teer struck Redfren, Whitehead said.

After bystanders separated them, Redfren "came back and headbutted [Teer] one time," Whitehead said.

Teer complained of feeling dizzy, collapsed, and died, Whitehead said.

Police are awaiting autopsy results before deciding whether Redfren should be charged.

redcap

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #5 on: September 20, 2007, 12:33:39 AM »

If I had no arms I'd be pretty defensive about my woman too! When I was single I felt sorry for myself because I had no girlfriend, then I met a man with no hands.......  Redcap
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redcap

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2007, 04:08:29 AM »

I have given this topic a great deal of thought here and there, whenever the idea to do so struck.  I think I will alter my position vis a vis headbutts and stand beside Hock on this one.

I have butted and I have been butted.  I think there is a valid point to be made that, unless your hands and feet and everything else is tied up and your only strike is a head butt, don;t use your head as an impact weapon!

I think the view that it is more harmful than helpful is the accurate one.  It makes sense to me, logic wise.  At first it was difficult to let go of something I have used and found useful however the reality is that there are better strikes to be used that don;t endanger the brain or run the risk of knocking yourself out.

As the man said, as instructors of self protection techniques we must ensure that if nothing else, we do no harm!  Thanks for the lesson, Cheers Redcap.
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whitewolf

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2007, 10:12:59 AM »

I was going through some old articles and found one by Lary Hartsell-it shows him in a clinch and driving his upper side of  his head into the side of the chin of the opponent-he stated in the article that it works well - i agree-also I dont think driving your head into a  punching bag is very good-there are better ways to practise
close in fighting than doing damage to yourself..
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redcap

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2007, 04:30:29 PM »

You can;t pull that off if you are drugged, ask Mas O......

I stand by my post.  I will not teach headbutting as a tactic if for no other reason than liability but really because I have SEEN THE LIGHT! Let my shoulders do my butting and free my face for smiles!

Give yourself over to no headbutting Hughes!  Be born again as a headbutt free fighter!  Save your soul if not your senses!  If Jesus wanted you to headbutt he would have given you a prominent, Neanderthal like brow and......wait a minute.....never mind!  Just Say No! to Headbutts!

Brother (Born Again) Redcap.
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redcap

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2007, 09:23:07 PM »

Precisely!  They have their place and as I siad I have used them and had them used against me with varying success.  My point is I can see your point and feel they need to be kept as that last resort or when there is value in using it weighed up against the risk. I still like them for all the reasons I lked them before, I just accept there are reasons not to use them and not to teach them (at least to newbies). All the rest was just stirring the Nick Meister. hehehehe

I think neuro surgeons err on the side of caution for obvious reasons and some instructors fail to acknowledge there is an argument for not teaching them. Like most things in life it is a balancing act.

I will now do a little empirical research and look at situations where I would have advocated the nut and what alternative I can offer.  Cheers Redcap
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Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #10 on: January 27, 2009, 02:43:15 PM »

There are at least three head butt threads running on this forum so I am not exactly sure where to put this somewhat related, medical news, said,

Dr. Ann McKee, a neuropathologist at the Veterans Administration Hospital in Bedford, Massachusetts, and co-director of the CSTE-

"Until recently, the best medical definition for concussion was a jarring blow to the head that temporarily stunned the senses, occasionally leading to unconsciousness. It has been considered an invisible injury, impossible to test -- no MRI, no CT scan can detect it. But today, using tissue from retired NFL athletes culled posthumously, the Center for the Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy (CSTE), at the Boston University School of Medicine, is shedding light on what concussions look like in the brain. The findings are stunning. Far from innocuous, invisible injuries, concussions confer tremendous brain damage. That damage has a name: chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE). CTE has thus far been found in the brains of five out of five former NFL players. On Tuesday afternoon, researchers at the CSTE will release study results from the sixth NFL player exhibiting the same kind of damage...


The full CNN Article is a must read....
http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/01/26/athlete.brains/index.html
« Last Edit: January 27, 2009, 02:54:06 PM by Hock »
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grlaun

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #11 on: January 27, 2009, 03:03:08 PM »

That is some serious stuff!  Fascinating.
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Milldog1776

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #12 on: January 27, 2009, 05:47:07 PM »

Well, the guy who the article is about is a former Pro Wrestler. Most pro wrestlers I have met are not exactly what I would cal Brain Surgeons.  ;D
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Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #13 on: January 27, 2009, 07:17:54 PM »

Aaannnnd for the record...

The article was written by By Stephanie Smith, CNN Medical Producer.

Hock

whitewolf

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #14 on: January 27, 2009, 11:31:46 PM »

Very interesting updates=
As to using in a fight- if you are as big as Nick then head butt away folks- but - if you are a little guy then it might not work  ;D ;D

One time while in Newark I was attacked by a guard during a work violence episode-I head butted him in the nose-did not even phaze the MF,r-

I like the info on use of your shoulder- i was shown that tactic by a pro boxer .

WW (ELB)
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Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #15 on: March 18, 2009, 07:46:30 PM »

Relates to someone:

   a) falling after being stunned in a fight,
   b) being hit in the head
   c) yes, even the head-butter delivering a head butt...



From a CNN Medical report: March 2009:

A blow to the head that at first seems minor and does not result in immediate pain or other symptoms can in fact turn out to be a life-threatening brain injury, experts tell CNN. Immediate treatment is essential after a brain injury because damage caused by swelling is often irreversible.

 It's very common for someone who's had a fall or been in a car accident to appear perfectly lucid just after the impact but then to suddenly, rapidly deteriorate, Dr. Carmelo Graffagnino, director of Duke University Medical Center's Neurosciences Critical Care Unit, told CNN.

Actress Natasha Richardson was talking and joking after she fell Monday during a beginner ski lesson, according to officials at the Canadian resort where she was staying. But soon after she returned to her room she complained of head pain and was taken to a nearby hospital, then to a larger medical center in Montreal. She was flown by private jet Tuesday to a New York hospital. She died Wednesday, according to a family statement.

"A patient can appear so deceivingly normal at first," said Graffagnino, director of Duke University Medical Center's Neurosciences Critical Care Unit. "But they actually have a brain bleed and as the pressure builds up, they'll experience classic symptoms of a traumatic brain injury."

Such injuries are known as epidural hemorrhage. Blood gets trapped between the skull and the hard layer of skin between the bone and brain, known as the dura mater
Patients are often unaware they've fractured their skull. In these cases, the fracture generally occurs just above the ear, in the temporal bone. "There is an artery that runs above the skull and can get torn and begin to bleed above the lining of the brain." Graffagnino says.

"At that point all the pressure is pushed on the brain, causing it to swell but there is often no room for it to move inside the skull cavity. And as the pressure continues, it reduces blood flow to the brain and a patient would begin to feel the symptoms."

The condition is commonly referred to as "talk and die" syndrome among neuroscience physicians and surgeons, because the patient can decline so rapidly.

Graffagnino says the initial fall or injury doesn't have to be hard at all. The delay in symptoms can range from five minutes to three hours after the accident.

If an individual isn't medically evaluated after a car accident, sports injury, or just a slip in the driveway, recognizing the signs brain injury early is critical. Nausea, severe headache, glossy eyes, sudden sleepiness, are all common symptoms. Getting to a hospital within the first few hours is critical to prevent permanent brain damage, experts say. An emergency room team can quickly determine the severity of your injury. An emergency craniotomy -- opening of the skull -- surgery is often needed to stop the bleeding and control brain swelling.

Immediate treatment is essential after a brain injury because the initial damage caused by swelling often is irreversible.

"One of the things we teach to trauma teams, is if a group of people are in a car crash and someone dies, we have to assume everyone else has serious injuries--even if they look good, and say they feel totally fine," Graffagnino said.

Certain medications can increase a person's risk for hemorrhages, especially for the elderly. Doctors say even a small bump on the head can be dangerous for patients taking blood thinners, among other prescription drugs.

"Talk and die" syndrome also can result from a subdural bleed, which develops between the brain and the dura. These bleeds can "squish the brain," Graffagnino said, and cause injury at a slower rate. A person can often feel normal for several days before feeling any symptoms.

"You don't have to see external injury to have injury to the brain," said Dr Philip Stieg, chair of neurosurgery at NYP/Weill Cornell. To evaluate a person's response after a minor trauma, Stieg recommends checking the size of their pupils and asking questions such as the patient's name and what year it is. In the hours following, Stieg recommends monitoring the person's cognitive skills and to "bring them in to get a CAT scan" if there is a change in behavior.

The brain also can be bruised after an accident, leaving patients with no symptoms or signs of a bleed at first glance. But the nerves surrounding the bruise can begin to stretch, causing what is known as an axonal injury. "The brain is like Jell-O. Imagine if you dropped a bowl of Jell-O on the floor and it looks intact at first but when you examine it really close, you can see it has teeny tiny cracks all in it," Graffagnino said. "Well the brain can have these tiny cracks that don't show up on initial CAT scan but will develop into problems down the line."

Once surgeons stop a brain bleed, the next step is to monitor brain activity and check for permanent damage. A patient typically spends up to a month in a neuro-ICU. Patients who survive often spend the next several years in physical and cognitive therapy to regain function, according to experts.

"The most important thing to do to lower your risk is to wear a helmet when you can, and don't brush off an injury because you feel 'fine' at first," Graffagnino said. "The thing that's going to save a life is for friends and relatives to recognize the first glimmer of a symptom. The quicker we can stop the bleed, the better."
« Last Edit: March 19, 2009, 09:25:34 AM by Hock »
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harvey

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2009, 03:08:24 PM »

I used a head butt in a street fight(circa 1989) actually we were in a park. This person who I knew fairly well hot wired my motorcycle and took it for a joy ride. This guy was a known criminal. I was about 17 years old and he was in his early twenties I was about 5' 8" and he was about 6'0 to 6'1 the height will play an important factor in this one second confrontation. I was in Ed parker's Kenpo for about 4 years I was a brown belt at the time and never learned head butting in Kenpo. Anyway I saw him and I confronted him for taking my motorcycle without permission I was extremely angry. He walked up to me and got right in my face I instantly head butted him directly into his nose a perfect shot I was off the ground when I hit him so my whole body weight got into the head butt the fight was over he was done on the ground holding his nose as blood was rushing from his nose. I have been in several street fights and this was the only time I had the opportunity to use me head ha, ha. I agree with hock because the science is to solid and its pretty obvious to me that head butting is dangerous even without the science.

Thanks
Harvey Hilton
« Last Edit: April 01, 2009, 03:14:19 PM by harvey »
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Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2009, 06:47:56 AM »

High school athletes face serious concussion risks
By Janice Lloyd, USA TODAY, May, 2009

When high school athletes suffer concussions, as many as 40.5% return to action prematurely and set themselves up for more severe injuries, new research shows.
The study from the Center for Injury Research and Policy at Nationwide Children's Hospital in Columbus, Ohio, adds fuel to growing concerns about the long-term side effects of concussions. It also shines new light on inadequately trained personnel on the sidelines unprepared to make accurate diagnoses and informed decisions about sending players back on the field.


STUDENT ATHLETES: Trainers pushing for 'athletic health care' in high schools

"We find these numbers about athletes returning to play tremendously alarming," says Dawn Comstock, the study's director of research.

Concussions account for almost one in 10 sports injuries, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, and for young people ages 15-24, sports are second only to motor vehicle accidents as the leading cause of brain injury. Comstock estimated that more than 130,000 concussions occurred in nine sports last year, adding that those are "conservative estimates" that will grow when she adds nine additional sports to her research this year.

FIND MORE STORIES IN: North Carolina | Los Angeles | Columbus | Pittsburgh Steelers | National Football League | Centers for Disease Control and Prevention
About 3.8 million students competed in those sports. The most concussions occurred in football and boys' and girls' soccer.

The statistic most troubling to Comstock: 16% of football players reported returning to play the same day they lost consciousness. An athlete is advised not to return to play the same day after losing consciousness in guidelines created by an international panel of experts in 2004.

Young athletes, whose brains and skulls are immature, risk death or additional concussions by going back too soon. Recurrent concussions also have led to depression and early dementia, according to studies on retired NFL players. All concussions require evaluation by a medical doctor.

In rare instances, the danger of playing with a concussion can lead to death from second impact syndrome (SIS), a condition in which the brain swells, shutting down the brain stem and resulting in respiratory failure. In North Carolina last year, two high school football players died from SIS. Both returned to play within two days of getting a concussion. Three other football players died from brain injuries, and 14 high school football players died overall, says the Annual Survey of Football Injury Research.

The National Federation of State High School Associations has reviewed the new data from Comstock and is sending a revised concussion pamphlet to state federations before the end of the school year, says the federation's Bob Colgate.

"We're trying to keep this a front-burner issue," Colgate says. "Kids are still getting in and playing with head injuries."

The pamphlet is directed at coaches, the people most often responsible for the welfare of athletes, Colgate says.

Only 42% of high schools have athletic trainers. Kevin Guskiewicz, a former athletic trainer for the Pittsburgh Steelers, belongs to the National Athletic Trainers Association and is chair of the sports science department at the University of North Carolina.

"If we cannot put the appropriate medical personnel on the sidelines, such as certified athletic trainers, schools should consider dropping contact or high-risk sports," he says. "People have said we're overreacting, but if you're involved in mismanagement of these kids and listen to their families, you quickly realize the importance of quality care."

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2009, 08:25:50 AM »

Last night I was reading an article from a medical journal by Dr Sandra Chapman of the Center for Brain Health and she made a statement,

         "We've learned more in the last five years about the human brain than
           all the years before combined."

This is an amazing statement and reflects back on why we should question and re-examine these old studies, certainly primitive ones from the 1930s and 1950s, or old, uneducated mythologies that the your brain (and your student's brains) are completely impervious to stunning, to unconsciousnes or injury when blasting your head around an impact weapon.


Hock
« Last Edit: May 08, 2009, 11:24:13 AM by Hock »
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whitewolf

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2009, 10:40:33 PM »

I just read in arab times another pro boxer died from being hit in the head-WW (ELB)
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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #20 on: May 28, 2009, 09:46:58 AM »

Former NHL star Primeau warns of concussion risks

By Janice Lloyd, USA TODAY
 
 Safety on the ice: Keith Primeau demonstrates a drill for the kids' hockey team he coaches in Pennsauken, N.J. Primeau, who has agreed to donate his brain upon his death for a Sports Legacy Institute study, is especially careful about players with head injuries returning to the ice after his own NHL experiences.
 
One of the upsides of leaving professional ice hockey would be to live a normal life, Keith Primeau said when he retired three years ago as captain of the Philadelphia Flyers.
He had lingering brain damage after multiple concussions while playing center for 15 years and could not pass the team physical.

Now Primeau, 37, is coaching kids and studying for a college degree but says his life is still not normal. He recently decided to donate his brain upon his death to a landmark study and has made it a priority to warn parents and their children about the dangers of concussions.

He says he will always know "I've done damage" to his brain. For starters?

"When I exert energy, I get lightheaded," he says. "I coach youth teams. I can go out on the ice for three or four hours with them and be fine, but if I ever try to participate and elevate my heart rate, I get lightheaded and it feels like my head is disconnected from my body. I just can't (work out)."

And when he gets sick?

"I can't get my head off the pillow for a couple of days," he says. "Any illness goes straight to my head. I get a headache, and it feels like it's a hundred-pound cinder block. I go into a natural fog. I wouldn't be able to focus."

A pledge to science. Primeau is one of nearly 120 athletes who the Sports Legacy Institute has signed up to pledge their brains after they die to the Center for Study of Traumatic Encephalopathy at Boston University. The latest: Don Hasselbeck, a tight end who last played for the New York Giants.

Since the center was created in 2008, research conducted on the six brains of deceased NFL players at the Boston University School of Medicine found that all had chronic traumatic encephalopathy (CTE), a degenerative brain disease similar to Alzheimer's. It is found in people who have had multiple concussions. Studies show it also afflicts wrestlers and boxers.

The array of CTE symptoms includes loss of memory, confusion, emotional problems and early-onset dementia. The troubles can begin months, years or decades after the last injury. The only way to diagnose CTE, says Robert Cantu, co-founder of SLI with Chris Nowinski, is after death when the brain is dissected.

Most of the SLI studies have been done on retired athletes, but January research reported early evidence of CTE in the youngest person to date, an 18-year-old who suffered repeated concussions in high school football.

Concussions can be very hard to detect since not everyone passes out. Nausea, blurry vision and confusion are other symptoms. Within the past several years, increased awareness about concussions and "post-concussion syndrome" has led most professional and college teams to start using computer-based programs that measure attention, memory, processing speed and reaction time to one-hundredth of a second.

It is too costly for most high schools and youth programs, where it could help coaches and trainers identify problems and sideline players. Concussions account for almost one in 10 sports injuries for people ages 15 to 24, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

Yet nearly 41% of high school athletes return to action too soon after concussions.
Primeau endured a career of blows to his head but adds that he won't forget one that knocked him out:

"I spent the night in the hospital, flew the next day and was back in the lineup that day. That was the beginning of my demise."

He now knows resting — and not playing until the concussion is healed — can help prevent long-term damage. He has started to use tests to determine if his athletes have concussions and has made decisions to keep kids off the ice.

"I can tell when a child has suffered a concussion," he says. "I do not put them back on the ice. I've told parents I'm not putting their child back in. And I've actually had instances where parents will want to go in a different direction and the kids will go out on the ice and get sick."

And other times, players are not honest. That was true of Primeau's oldest son, Correy, who plays club-level hockey for Neumann College in Aston, Pa., and respects his father's concerns.

"I played once with a concussion last year," Correy says. "I wouldn't do it again. I had trouble afterward for about a week, but I just didn't want to let my team down at the time."

The effect can subside -Primeau says he and his wife never considered keeping their kids out of contact sports. "It's what they want to do," he says. "I just hope they remain safe and healthy."

But he drew the line on playing football.

"My wife is from Texas, and she would have liked to see the kids play football," he says. "I said, 'No way, it's way too dangerous.' That's the one sport I would not let my kids play."

He laughs and says he knows ice hockey has been rough on him, but he hopes life will be normal again. Cantu says post-concussion syndrome can eventually subside.

"Within the past couple of weeks, I think I improved again," Primeau says. "I think I'd become accustomed to living with head pressure. But within the past couple weeks, I haven't had that feeling. I'm afraid when it's going to come back, but I've always accepted it."

 

Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #21 on: June 29, 2009, 06:31:13 AM »

http://www.abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=7109626

Great news clip on small but deadly brain bump injuries. Great description by another doctor. Another reason to limit head butts.


Hock

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Re: Head Butts
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2009, 09:41:50 AM »

You all know I am for the "limited use" of the head butt in self defense. Well, not me really but EVERY BRAIN DOCTOR on the planet. Don't argue with me. Leave me out of it. Argue with them. Here is yet another related story of ANY mutlitple "small" hits to the brain...


      "So what are we going to do about it? Like many afflictions, preventative measures have gone ignored. More attention must be paid to fighters' brain health -- not only logging baseline MRIs to compare against follow-up scans, but enlisting mental health professionals to evaluate athletes throughout their careers. Businesses often employ crisis-counseling psychologists to help employees cope with traumatic events. In mixed martial arts, every fight is a traumatic event.
      No one seems overly concerned with repeated concussions, those charming keepsakes shared by NFL players and the growing number of athletes in other sports who are living post-career lives in misery as a result. Athletes who have suffered a head injury on multiple occasions and demand to compete anyway don't need to have their tantrums indulged. They need to talk to someone about how to adapt to life without audiences and adulation..."

http://sports.espn.go.com/extra/mma/news/story?id=4556535
 

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