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Author Topic: last time you were in a fight  (Read 13184 times)

Canuk

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last time you were in a fight
« on: January 01, 2010, 10:32:36 AM »

lots of talk on here about what works and what doesn't work, as you all know training is just training (theory if you will ) until you have to use it. So when was the last time you were in a fight, how long ago? under what circumstances? arrest, bar fight etc. What worked what didn't?
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #1 on: January 01, 2010, 11:23:32 AM »

Here is one,fits well with the charging/tackle thread:
Last November in a pub in London with wife and her brother.

I sit with my back to the wall in most places I go.
Jack off comes from toilets,I see him coming,brother in law is sitting facing me with newspaper on table.
Jack off walks behind brother in law grabs the paper rolls it up and uses a back hand delivery hitting brother in law in face knocking off his glasses.
Brother in law goes to stand up and gets a forehand news paper across the face.
Brother in law stands and begins verbal  dialogue about why Jack off struck him.
Jack off starts yelling to sit the F down ,just sit the F down.
Brother in law stays standing asking why he was struck.

I see Jack off grabbing the back of a heavy stuffed chair and turning.
Brother in law still standing with hands down .
Jack off moves to close the distance with chair firmly held ,brother in law does not do anything so I move from my seat  as the chair is raised to over head.
Jack off yells to me to sit down,as I close the gap on him,now I am too close to allow Jack off to bring the chair down so he shifts to stab at me with the legs.

I parry the chair to my right,slide in and turn delivering an elbow to the back of Jack offs head and he goes into a nudge machine video game ,found in the pubs.

He is hits the machine head first and then with blood running down his face he runs at me with a charge type tackle at waist level.
I slide my right hand up under his left arm and push his head up as I turn 180 degrees and pull down on his right arm with my left and he turns in the air,and lands on a table,with my right hand grabbing hold of his trachea.
He tries to swing ,so I push his right arm,which is closer to my face,turning him slightly to the side,pushing his right arm over his face,while applying pressure to his trachea.

His friends in the pub see he is now in a bad way and a few rush us pushing him off the table and me along with the wave.
I never let go of Jack offs right arm or his trachea and he is now on the floor and they are trying to get me off.
Now more bystanders pile in and I am now on the floor,hand off the trachea but I still have hold of jack offs right arm so I slide it down to my hip,throw my leg over his head and go for a break of his arm.
He starts screaming,his friends start kicking into me,pull my left arm off  jack off but I still have top position and my right hand is holding his right arm.
of them are standinging on my bent legs so I cannot get up.
Jack Off is still pinned under me,so they are yelling to let him up,and I am yelling they are standing on my legs and can't get up.
Now I think about some one having a weapon or using a glass to stick me so I trun enough to get my back to the wall and tell them get off me and I will get up.
Jack Offs friends pull him out from underneath me ,they hold me there and Jack off gets a kick in to my face as they get him out the door.
Then they let me up.
they tell me the guy is a local gangster and a drug user/dealer and they are sorry.
Met Police come,ask if I want to go to hospital,I say no,they take a basic report and leave.

I met up with Joe Hubbard the next day and told him the story.

I have other stories since but some were resolved verbally,( many seem to think I am a cop,LOL), and the others were swings/hay makers by them at my head that were dealt with by use of a basic shield/Blauer type entry,wrap,trachea grab and take down.
(the SPEAR type defense against a haymaker seems to be my most used move,been using it since a kid before Blauer but is best to call it the Spear as most now what it is)
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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #2 on: January 01, 2010, 12:23:53 PM »

JimH-give your brother in law some self defense lessons before he is killed- glad you responded- WW (ELB) "speed of light"
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2010, 06:26:48 PM »

WW,
My brother in law is the studious type,a UK Government worker.

The pub was in the area my wife's family grew up in,and many in the pub are related to them,so this stupid initial assault with a newspaper was a big surprise to him.

He trained for a short while in TKD in a church hall when he was around 10 and that is the extent of any self defense for him.

He  lives in the UK so he is not close enough to train with me,I doubt he would any way as he is not into training for physical violence.
(Wolves,sheepdogs and sheep,that is what makes up society)
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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2010, 06:42:02 PM »

JimH-ok he is studious type-at least he can be advised about immediate responses-to get out of reach-anyhow i wish him the best- WW
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2010, 07:16:57 PM »

Not long ago I was driving to training ,made a left turn ,it was a hill and as I looked left down the hill I saw a man with a large laundry bag near the bottom of the hill,a car drives up and three men jump out and run up behind him.
The car drives to the bottom of the hill and turns right  and sits on the corner in the direction of traffic,(set for a fast get away).
As I approached the spot the 3 men had the man with the laundry bag on the floor and they were kicking him and beating him with short aluminum bats,around 12 -18 inches.

I pulled into a drive way  just below them,got out and walked towards them,along the side of the parked cars to have some protection.
They saw me and said to get lost.

I yelled what the F are you doing to that guy,leave him alone.
Does it take 3 of you with bats to beat a guy and kick him while he is down.

One of them yells he's a cop and runs and jumps in the car that was waiting.
The second one  who was more to the middle of the side walk,raises his right arm and small bat and runs towards me ,so I ran towards him to close the gap with my hands up at the ready,he swung the bat from his 11 0'clock down and across  toward my shoulder/neck .
I ran to him in a sort of SPEAR,my left arm up,I made contact with him by driving my right elbow into his center line  angled to his right collar bone and  simultaneously wrapped my left arm around his right arm just above his elbow joint,I slid my right hand to a his trachea and threw him down with a step behind throw.
I held his right arm as he went down and ended up with his bat.
I dropped my knee into his ribs and turned to the last guy who was watching but still hitting the man on the ground.
(the guy I downed made his way to the car and jumped into the back through the window)
The last guy wasn't interested in me,so I got closer and he stopped,he said the guy he was beating used to date his sister and that he had set fire to her apartment a few days earlier.
I told him if he knew this as fact then call the Police and or the Fire Marshalls.
He said he wanted to deal with it personally.

He said he was done ,went between several parked cars to the street and got into the car and they left.

I asked the guy who was beaten if he wanted the police or ambulance as he was not in good shape.
(I do not have a cell phone,so I could not call)
He did not want the Police or ambulance ,he managed to get out his phone and called for a friend to pick him up.
I stayed with him till his friend arrived and then told the friend he should call the Police and go to the hospital .
They got into the friends car and left.

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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2010, 07:26:46 PM »

WW,
I agree with you, even those set against physical violence should learn at least how to move out and away from danger.
My brother in law is one of those who is not interested in even the basics,even after this event.
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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #7 on: January 01, 2010, 08:08:59 PM »

Oh well-i wish him the best-ww
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Bryan

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #8 on: January 01, 2010, 09:29:27 PM »

Not long ago I was driving to training ,made a left turn ,it was a hill and as I looked left down the hill I saw a man with a large laundry bag near the bottom of the hill,a car drives up and three men jump out and run up behind him.
The car drives to the bottom of the hill and turns right  and sits on the corner in the direction of traffic,(set for a fast get away).
As I approached the spot the 3 men had the man with the laundry bag on the floor and they were kicking him and beating him with short aluminum bats,around 12 -18 inches.

I pulled into a drive way  just below them,got out and walked towards them,along the side of the parked cars to have some protection.
They saw me and said to get lost.

I yelled what the F are you doing to that guy,leave him alone.
Does it take 3 of you with bats to beat a guy and kick him while he is down.

One of them yells he's a cop and runs and jumps in the car that was waiting.
The second one  who was more to the middle of the side walk,raises his right arm and small bat and runs towards me ,so I ran towards him to close the gap with my hands up at the ready,he swung the bat from his 11 0'clock down and across  toward my shoulder/neck .
I ran to him in a sort of SPEAR,my left arm up,I made contact with him by driving my right elbow into his center line  angled to his right collar bone and  simultaneously wrapped my left arm around his right arm just above his elbow joint,I slid my right hand to a his trachea and threw him down with a step behind throw.
I held his right arm as he went down and ended up with his bat.
I dropped my knee into his ribs and turned to the last guy who was watching but still hitting the man on the ground.
(the guy I downed made his way to the car and jumped into the back through the window)
The last guy wasn't interested in me,so I got closer and he stopped,he said the guy he was beating used to date his sister and that he had set fire to her apartment a few days earlier.
I told him if he knew this as fact then call the Police and or the Fire Marshalls.
He said he wanted to deal with it personally.

He said he was done ,went between several parked cars to the street and got into the car and they left.

I asked the guy who was beaten if he wanted the police or ambulance as he was not in good shape.
(I do not have a cell phone,so I could not call)
He did not want the Police or ambulance ,he managed to get out his phone and called for a friend to pick him up.
I stayed with him till his friend arrived and then told the friend he should call the Police and go to the hospital .
They got into the friends car and left.



JimH, You are one hypocritical dumb ass to say the least. The most ignorant thing you have posted so far is your running around without a cell phone yet you've claimed in the past to be some kind of first responder or something. To be naked without communications anywhere on earth unless you are denied technology is inexcusable.

  The rest of you're bullshit is just unbelievable. You arrive on scene to see a attack under way so you run and jump right in the middle of it having no idea what the hell is going on, just that you do not like three on one as it goes against your sense of fairness.

  You jump right in the middle of the incident as if you were a cop yet you have no controlling legal authority (No Credentials, No Firearm) outside of being a citizen driving down the street who should have had a phone and called the police his own fool self. You assault a man, find out you're supposed victim is actually some kind of sicko involved with a family member of the original group of three and you then advise the brother of the girl who is being stalked he should have called the cops instead of taking the law into his own hands as a vigilante.

  In your mind this story is a good one worth bragging about on the internet but from where I'm sitting I'm shaking my head wondering how ate the fuck up one individual can actually be.  You're like some kind of ironic comic book hero, a real live Barney Fife minus the badge & bullet.
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #9 on: January 01, 2010, 10:01:54 PM »

Quote Canuk:

"lots of talk on here about what works and what doesn't work, as you all know training is just training (theory if you will ) until you have to use it. So when was the last time you were in a fight, how long ago? under what circumstances? arrest, bar fight etc. What worked what didn't?"
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #10 on: January 01, 2010, 10:38:20 PM »

Two young men,early twenties, in a verbal argument with an elderly man at an intersection.
Two young men beeping and yelling at an old man who is not going fast enough or driving the right way for them.
Young men pull into on coming traffic lane and cut off the old man,preventing him from being able to go forward to leave.
Old man is afraid,and is yelling at young men to leave him alone as he tries to roll up window.
Young men exit vehicle and approach older mans window with a "Club" steering wheel locking device and threaten old man.
I exit my vehicle and approach the young men and tell them to leave the old man alone.
They flip me the bird .
I continue to walk towards them and ask if they,as young men,need a "Club" to threaten an old man in fear.
They decide to get in their vehicle and leave.
I write down the plate number and go talk to the old man,he thanks me for helping  as NO ONE ELSE  in the heavy vehicle and foot traffic area would and I give him the plate number with my information on the back and tell him to go to the Police station and report the incident.

I wonder at what point people,who are not Police ,decide it is time to not take it anymore  and find the Guts to help out those clearly unable to help themselves ?
Everybody with a camera cell phone is able to film events,none are able to step up and stop it ,nor are they able to call Police.

People with training and guts who sit and DO NOTHING,allowing the wanna be thugs to do what they like and or film conflicts instead of calling for help are theorists and COWARDS.
If you are afraid of the Outcome of interceding then stay at Home and lock the doors as you are not Worth a crap anyway.
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Bryan

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #11 on: January 01, 2010, 11:40:57 PM »

Two young men,early twenties, in a verbal argument with an elderly man at an intersection.
Two young men beeping and yelling at an old man who is not going fast enough or driving the right way for them.
Young men pull into on coming traffic lane and cut off the old man,preventing him from being able to go forward to leave.
Old man is afraid,and is yelling at young men to leave him alone as he tries to roll up window.
Young men exit vehicle and approach older mans window with a "Club" steering wheel locking device and threaten old man.
I exit my vehicle and approach the young men and tell them to leave the old man alone.
They flip me the bird .
I continue to walk towards them and ask if they,as young men,need a "Club" to threaten an old man in fear.
They decide to get in their vehicle and leave.
I write down the plate number and go talk to the old man,he thanks me for helping  as NO ONE ELSE  in the heavy vehicle and foot traffic area would and I give him the plate number with my information on the back and tell him to go to the Police station and report the incident.

I wonder at what point people,who are not Police ,decide it is time to not take it anymore  and find the Guts to help out those clearly unable to help themselves ?
Everybody with a camera cell phone is able to film events,none are able to step up and stop it ,nor are they able to call Police.

People with training and guts who sit and DO NOTHING,allowing the wanna be thugs to do what they like and or film conflicts instead of calling for help are theorists and COWARDS.
If you are afraid of the Outcome of interceding then stay at Home and lock the doors as you are not Worth a crap anyway.

Like I was saying, your nothing more than a  hypocritical dumb ass. You jump right in the middle of three guys sending a message to a scum bag to leave one of their sisters alone. You tell them they should have called the cops and they actually believed you were a cop, that's probably why they didn't give you a beat down. Now your telling everyone they should jump in the middle of other peoples business and if they dont they are cowards.

  Scenario B, You jump out of your car and approach a hostile situation unarmed, without a badge, you have no legal authority, you are not even a mall cop on in your own parking lot. You have no idea what is going on, no idea who the bad guy is, and in a second you are now in the middle of a hostile situation for no other reason than your own Barney Fife arrogance.  Somebody pulls a gun and you get your ass shot off, now your wife is a widow, who is going to pay the bills?
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arnold

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #12 on: January 02, 2010, 06:46:35 AM »

All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. We are loaded in today's world with more assholes than we need. If someone doesn't do something, than some person could end up a widower or widow.
Wait for the police, hardly, not with the typical response times we see in this world. Though I do take my hat off to the local cops here as when i called for an ambulance to take my wife to the hospital when she was ill, the local Sgt was here in less that 30 seconds. All he heard was that an ambulance was needed at my address. He thought that someone had tried to break into the house and i had killed the dumbass.
Many years ago I worked in the bar business in NY as a manager/bartender. One lovely Sat evening there were no less than 5000 assorted drunken idiots in the bar and one the beach terrace. There was some trouble reported down by the pit bar. So as I make my way there, I come across 4 steroid heads, one being what was left of a female. I walk up and ask what seems to be the problem. The largest of the group, about 6'4 and 290, tells me to go fuck myself. I told him that if i could do that i would make a video and send him and each of his friends a copy. For some reason he did not like this response and said that he was going to pick me up with one hand. At which point i told him I could make him let go with one finger. So as the steroid head picks me up, I stick my finger in his eye! He immediately let go of me and started yelling about his eye. Now the female roid head, about 5'10 200 lbs steps forward screaming she is going to kill me. As she steps forward reaching for me, I deflect her hand out of the way and stab her in her enlarged adams apple with my thumb and she starts to gag. As the other 2 step forward I now notice that a large friend of mine about 7 foot 450 pounds has walked up behind one of them, grabs him by the back of his pants and throws him into a pole. Now the fourth one decides and announces that he is going to kill me. At which point I drew my 45 colt and told him that that was a bad decision on his part and that he wanted his b day to come off the calendar that was up to him.
As my memory fads ( thank goodness) I can only hope that the Great Obama will protect me and keep me from harm. And if you think I believe that shit, you're all wackier than I am.
Let's hope and pray for a better new year as we as a country loaded ourselves up with too many liberal assholes that really need to go
Once again
Thank me!
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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #13 on: January 02, 2010, 08:59:34 AM »

I grew up in the Bronx NY.
In my neighborhood you fought  for your postion in the group you hung out with,the neighborhood.
I grew up in a time when gangs in NYC like the Black Spades,Savage Skulls,Savage Nomads roamed the streets and came through neighborhoods and took your stuff or beat you or your friends up,you fought for yourself,your friends and your stuff.

My first knife encounter I was 11 and it had been snowing.
Younger kids were throwing snowballs.
A local junkie,tough guy ,ALMOST got hit,so he chased down a little kid and pinned him to a wall.
I went and said that the kid didn't hit him with the snow ball and he pulled out a switch blade and came at me.
I turned and ran and he chased me.
Ten feet  away was a Christmas tree that had been burned  and I picked it up,turned back to this jerk and began to shove it at his face.
He flailed away at the tree and I stuck him in the chest and he fell down.
I threw the tree on him,and as he tried to get it off I picked up a Heavy net trash can that was on the corner ,and still found on many corners in NYC, and I dropped it on his head and chest a few time.
He dropped his knife,one of the others grabbed it and ran.
We all ran and he left.
Someone had called the Police,they finally arrived and heard our story,took the blade and then took us on a ride around to look for the guy.

You defend yourself,you defend others and you fight for what is yours.

As a Citizen of the United States you have the Right to Self Defense.
You Have the Right and Obligation to Help and Defend Others.
One DOES NOT need to be a Police Officer to do any of the above.
One also Does Not need to be a police officer to enact an arrest and or detain those who commit a crime.

What one needs,as Joe Hubbard wrote,is "A Belief System".

I believe I have the Right to Go where I want and Do what I want as long as it does not  bother others.
If some one brings threat or conflict to me,mine or those unable to defend themselves ,if I can act I will and I act with out concern for the consequences as this is what DOERS do,they act.
Theorists and Cowards sit ,watch and pray for some one who does act to come and help.

Police are not on every corner,even with a cell phone calling for help takes time and in that time the overwhelmed can be severely injured or killed.

In the Martial Arts I learned about action as opposed to inaction.
In the Military I learned about action as opposed to inaction.
In Jobs in my life I have learned of action as opposed to inaction.
In My life I have learned of action as opposed to inaction.

Action is Always Better Than Inaction.

Action always has a consequence and those who worry about the Consequences Never Act.
(Inaction is fear,Fear of consequence)
We all will die.
If we die acting  for ourselves or on behalf of others it is better than dying old having seen much brutality and doing nothing or dying at the hands of another while we wish we had the guts to fight back.
(Budo,the way of the Warrior, is specific in that if we have training we use it protect ourselves and others with out fear of death)

I am a doer.
I speak from doing and action not from theory and fear.
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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #14 on: January 02, 2010, 09:44:00 AM »

Hey Arnold-thank you-- ;D WW (ELB) "speed of light" Oh and getting faster..
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Canuk

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #15 on: January 02, 2010, 11:18:13 AM »

The compnay line around my parts is "if you have a problem call the police" as a LEO and instructor i have a problem with this line of thinking, as it teachs people to become victims, it takes away thier rights to defend themselves and others. Canada has had this thinking for a long time now and its reflected by nearly ervery cop I know. "just call the police and they will take care of it" well folks theres a reason they call it murder, its because you are dead! I strongly believe that the right to self defense is a universal one that transends the legal sytem. The flip side of this is the that cops then to t hink of themselves as invincible as they are the "only" ones that have the skills to help you. They then get s there asses handed to them.  Fight on people!
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Bryan

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #16 on: January 02, 2010, 11:24:55 AM »

I grew up in the Bronx NY.
In my neighborhood you fought  for your postion in the group you hung out with,the neighborhood.
I grew up in a time when gangs in NYC like the Black Spades,Savage Skulls,Savage Nomads roamed the streets and came through neighborhoods and took your stuff or beat you or your friends up,you fought for yourself,your friends and your stuff.

My first knife encounter I was 11 and it had been snowing.
Younger kids were throwing snowballs.
A local junkie,tough guy ,ALMOST got hit,so he chased down a little kid and pinned him to a wall.
I went and said that the kid didn't hit him with the snow ball and he pulled out a switch blade and came at me.
I turned and ran and he chased me.
Ten feet  away was a Christmas tree that had been burned  and I picked it up,turned back to this jerk and began to shove it at his face.
He flailed away at the tree and I stuck him in the chest and he fell down.
I threw the tree on him,and as he tried to get it off I picked up a Heavy net trash can that was on the corner ,and still found on many corners in NYC, and I dropped it on his head and chest a few time.
He dropped his knife,one of the others grabbed it and ran.
We all ran and he left.
Someone had called the Police,they finally arrived and heard our story,took the blade and then took us on a ride around to look for the guy.

You defend yourself,you defend others and you fight for what is yours.

As a Citizen of the United States you have the Right to Self Defense.
You Have the Right and Obligation to Help and Defend Others.
One DOES NOT need to be a Police Officer to do any of the above.
One also Does Not need to be a police officer to enact an arrest and or detain those who commit a crime.

What one needs,as Joe Hubbard wrote,is "A Belief System".

I believe I have the Right to Go where I want and Do what I want as long as it does not  bother others.
If some one brings threat or conflict to me,mine or those unable to defend themselves ,if I can act I will and I act with out concern for the consequences as this is what DOERS do,they act.
Theorists and Cowards sit ,watch and pray for some one who does act to come and help.

Police are not on every corner,even with a cell phone calling for help takes time and in that time the overwhelmed can be severely injured or killed.

In the Martial Arts I learned about action as opposed to inaction.
In the Military I learned about action as opposed to inaction.
In Jobs in my life I have learned of action as opposed to inaction.
In My life I have learned of action as opposed to inaction.

Action is Always Better Than Inaction.

Action always has a consequence and those who worry about the Consequences Never Act.
(Inaction is fear,Fear of consequence)
We all will die.
If we die acting  for ourselves or on behalf of others it is better than dying old having seen much brutality and doing nothing or dying at the hands of another while we wish we had the guts to fight back.
(Budo,the way of the Warrior, is specific in that if we have training we use it protect ourselves and others with out fear of death)

I am a doer.
I speak from doing and action not from theory and fear.


  Do you ever shut the fuck up? Who cares if you grew up in the Bronx and got in a snowball fight?


 
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Bryan

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #17 on: January 02, 2010, 11:40:44 AM »

All it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing. We are loaded in today's world with more assholes than we need. If someone doesn't do something, than some person could end up a widower or widow.
Wait for the police, hardly, not with the typical response times we see in this world. Though I do take my hat off to the local cops here as when i called for an ambulance to take my wife to the hospital when she was ill, the local Sgt was here in less that 30 seconds. All he heard was that an ambulance was needed at my address. He thought that someone had tried to break into the house and i had killed the dumbass.
Many years ago I worked in the bar business in NY as a manager/bartender. One lovely Sat evening there were no less than 5000 assorted drunken idiots in the bar and one the beach terrace. There was some trouble reported down by the pit bar. So as I make my way there, I come across 4 steroid heads, one being what was left of a female. I walk up and ask what seems to be the problem. The largest of the group, about 6'4 and 290, tells me to go fuck myself. I told him that if i could do that i would make a video and send him and each of his friends a copy. For some reason he did not like this response and said that he was going to pick me up with one hand. At which point i told him I could make him let go with one finger. So as the steroid head picks me up, I stick my finger in his eye! He immediately let go of me and started yelling about his eye. Now the female roid head, about 5'10 200 lbs steps forward screaming she is going to kill me. As she steps forward reaching for me, I deflect her hand out of the way and stab her in her enlarged adams apple with my thumb and she starts to gag. As the other 2 step forward I now notice that a large friend of mine about 7 foot 450 pounds has walked up behind one of them, grabs him by the back of his pants and throws him into a pole. Now the fourth one decides and announces that he is going to kill me. At which point I drew my 45 colt and told him that that was a bad decision on his part and that he wanted his b day to come off the calendar that was up to him.
As my memory fads ( thank goodness) I can only hope that the Great Obama will protect me and keep me from harm. And if you think I believe that shit, you're all wackier than I am.
Let's hope and pray for a better new year as we as a country loaded ourselves up with too many liberal assholes that really need to go
Once again
Thank me!

  Arnold, In that situation you were in charge of the bar, you knew what was going on, you were well within your right to conduct business without roid heads interrupting it.

  My major point before is that people need to be responsible for themselves. If your in charge of ground, by all means defend it. If someone you know and love is being attacked, unload whatever you got into the offender. If somebody messes with your kids, grandkids, do whatever it is you think is right, if that means rope and the old oak tree, Ive got no problem with that.
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Bryan

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #18 on: January 02, 2010, 11:57:53 AM »

The compnay line around my parts is "if you have a problem call the police" as a LEO and instructor i have a problem with this line of thinking, as it teachs people to become victims, it takes away thier rights to defend themselves and others. Canada has had this thinking for a long time now and its reflected by nearly ervery cop I know. "just call the police and they will take care of it" well folks theres a reason they call it murder, its because you are dead! I strongly believe that the right to self defense is a universal one that transends the legal sytem. The flip side of this is the that cops then to t hink of themselves as invincible as they are the "only" ones that have the skills to help you. They then get s there asses handed to them.  Fight on people!

  If its a problem involving people I know, ground I'm in charge of, I take care of it. However pulling up on a situation where I do not have any idea whats happening I'm not going to jump right off in the middle of it like a fool.

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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #19 on: January 02, 2010, 12:17:31 PM »

Bryan-i think u are going a little over board-just this week the young man on the plane jumped the bomber and possibly saved passengers- if he waited-we dont know what could have occured-reoliazing that we should look at the whole picture before jumping in to the fray-sometimes waiting will also get us killed-
 
when i was a little boy i was walking down the street and some dufus kid was trying to kill a squirrel- i saved the day by picking up a rock and threatening to brain the kid - he ran away -hows that for commng to the rescue---- ;D ;D

jumping forward to around 1961-we were in the barracks at new river air station and some jerk started to push a smaller marine around-i jumped in and smacked the MF-and told him to stop-he did-should i have stood by????

There are other incidents-more dangerous but the point is someone has to do something or the evil ones will take over-

WW (ELB) "speed of light" 
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Bryan

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #20 on: January 02, 2010, 12:47:47 PM »

Bryan-i think u are going a little over board-just this week the young man on the plane jumped the bomber and possibly saved passengers- if he waited-we dont know what could have occured-reoliazing that we should look at the whole picture before jumping in to the fray-sometimes waiting will also get us killed-
 
when i was a little boy i was walking down the street and some dufus kid was trying to kill a squirrel- i saved the day by picking up a rock and threatening to brain the kid - he ran away -hows that for commng to the rescue---- ;D ;D

jumping forward to around 1961-we were in the barracks at new river air station and some jerk started to push a smaller marine around-i jumped in and smacked the MF-and told him to stop-he did-should i have stood by????

There are other incidents-more dangerous but the point is someone has to do something or the evil ones will take over-

WW (ELB) "speed of light" 

  The situations you describe are entirely different from the scenarios JimH was describing. If your on a plane and anything happens you are already directly involved and have no choice but to take action. If your driving down the street and see a fight involving grown men & you have no idea what is going on, who the people are, whether they are armed or not, how dangerous the situation is. In that case your a fool to go barging into the situation.

  Just a few months ago a young man was shot down like a dog in Alaska for getting involved in another mans fight. The thing is he had just come back from Iraq, was out with his girlfriend, then he chose to get involved in other peoples bullshit and now he is dead and nobody give a damn. The people that own the bar couldn't care less, and the original girl who was fighting the murderer is probably smoking crack with some other abusive scumbag.

 
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #21 on: January 02, 2010, 02:37:56 PM »

Arnold ,
Great post.
Nice look at the simple uses of direct targeting, finger to the eye,thumb to the throat and .45 at center mass.

Canuk,
The problem you describe is beyond Canada.
Look at the calls the Police get in the US now for BS like "McDonalds would not make the burger the way I like",or " the store clerk would not let me talk to the manager".
People now rely on the police for everything and are so opposed to action they would rather film it than stop it or call it in.


I find it funny how people know and post about what others HAVE DONE to Help and Protect others,and how stupid the actions are,yet they offer no actions they have taken in defense of self or others ?
They offer a story of some one who acted and got killed as reason to avoid action.
I wonder how many people have died or been killed due to the on lookers watching and not acting?
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #22 on: January 02, 2010, 02:47:26 PM »

When in the USMC in the UK a Chief Petty Officer/Master at arms deecided he was going to run through the USMC security station and not check out.
He runs through,he is told to stop,doors are locked by remote but he catches a person entering as he runs out.
I am at the post to give chase and do.
I catch him just outside the building and grab him ,telling him he must come back inside.
He laughs and pulls a bottle out of a bag and  and says I will have to take him in.
He raises it up to swing so I jut in ,wrap his arm,palm heel him in the face and drop him to the side walk.
He is picked up and brought back in the building and charged.

Next time he is seen his pretty Gold Stripes were Red and one less.
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #23 on: January 02, 2010, 03:00:22 PM »

One time while bouncing at a club in Queens,there was a "Blonde" type band and singer They had a song in the act in which they smashed a Maniquin with a baseball bat.

I get a guy and a girl who come to see the band,the guy has a Baseball bat that he wants signed by the female lead singer.
I said ,sorry you cannot bring the bat in the club.
He says that he will bring the bat in the club to get it signed.
I said I will bring the bat back to the band and ask them to sign it.
He said he wants to see it get signed and get pictures with the band.
I said No,this cannot be done,sorry.

He says he WILL bring the bat in and NO One will stop him.
He takes a step back,gets into a batters stance and tells me I have to take the Bat.
So I start to talk to him as I step closer,I close the gap on him and then jut into him at angle towards his up raised arms,as he attempts to swing the bat I am now inside the arch of the bat ,I grab his hands,and turn my body bringing him and the bat around in front of me to the ground.
I roll him to his stomach,take the bat and break it and then ask him if he would still like to pay for he and his girl to go in and watch the band.
He was upset and he and his girl left.
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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #24 on: January 02, 2010, 03:19:44 PM »

JimH- it appears that you are using Krav Maga tactics-proud of u son proud of u- ;D
WW (ELB) "speed of light" -and getting faster--- :D
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #25 on: January 02, 2010, 03:26:42 PM »

WW,
As can be seen most people tend to launch similar first strikes wether armed or unarmed,so I tend to have always been able to use a similar entry and technique,especially when they move to the pose before action of raising their arm,lol.

We can call it Krav maga,Karate,Hapkido,call it what ever as long as it is simple ,quick and ends the conflict.


The scenarios that you ,Arnold and I have shared all show that immediate direct action can be taken and situations can be quickly diverted and or resolved in quick fashion with not so complicated employment/infliction of pain.

It would be good to have others post situational responses to conflicts they had.
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whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #26 on: January 02, 2010, 04:48:42 PM »

JimH-makes sense to me-
Another instance that happened to me- I was a store detective in Hawaii (very dangerous place to be a store Det i might add)
A adult male came into the store and after walking around took a hat from a display and started to walk out-I.D. myself and he ran-i got to him and he started to fight-i got him in a head lock and we felll through the glass plate door-when we landed i told him its all over  and dont fight me -he stopped  and came back inside-point i am making is i had to
act instead of reacting or he might have hurt me.

By being attacked and waiting untill the opponent has gotten into your space is not the best way to protect yourself-as you guys on the forum state be first be fast and hit hard-so you can go home.
WW (ELB) "speed of light" -and getting faster
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JimH

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #27 on: January 02, 2010, 07:58:37 PM »

WW,
Wow Going through a Plate Glass door is not good,glad you came away in good shape.
At least you had a bad guy who understood the show was over and didn't continue to attempt to get away.
So many try to carry on as if in the end it will mean some sort of freedom.
While it may be a goal,freedom will be ,for most, a short visit.

I fully agree.
Action is faster than reaction,so if threatened ,and we believe the threat is real,why wait ?
Go into launch mode and act with overwhelming violence of action and resolve the situation as quickly as possible.

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VicMackey

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #28 on: January 02, 2010, 08:13:12 PM »

Last major fight I had was with my brother about 4-5 yrs. ago. This is the first time I used martial arts, mainly Muay Thai. He suddenly got upset when I advised him that he needs to start contributing to keeping the house clean. He came at me. I told him this is not necessary and tried to de-escalate and then he started to advance towards me. Even my other brother was there as a witness too and he even yelled at my jerk brother to back off and to desist. He disregarded and I ended up push kicking him on his solar plexus about 5-6 feet back, almost hitting the table. I warned him not to do that again and told him it's not gonna be pretty the second time around. And, I was using a bladed de-escalation stance too. After hearing my second warning as well as my other brother's threat to call the cops on him, he left the house to cool off. Again, running away was not an option and if I turned my back on him, there was no telling what he could have done to me. From the analysis, I used the bladed palms open de-escalation stance and the push kick from Muay Thai, 2 techniques.
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"Fail to prepare, prepare to fail."
"A citizen is armed and free while a subject is disarmed and under control."
"An armed society is a polite society."
"Keep your friends close and your enemies closer"-Sun Tzu
"Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the mouth"-Mike Tyson

whitewolf

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Re: last time you were in a fight
« Reply #29 on: January 02, 2010, 09:39:42 PM »

Vic- perfect example of domestic violence and what can happen-hope he has calmed down over rthe years- WW
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