Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Lance_Larsen]

This weekend I was at the shooting range teaching my 12 year old niece how to shoot a .22 rifle.  On the range next to us was a guy who was trying out a new handgun he just bought.  Of course he brought along his wife and his father (or father in law) to show off his shooting prowess.

He was shooting at 15 yards and was hard pressed to hit within a 1 foot square with a revolver that should have been capable of driving the center out of the target.  He had a horrible grip.  His cheering squad kept telling him how awesome he was shooting, when he decided to adjust his sights to compensate for his lack of shooting skills (AAAAAHHHHH!!!  I could just scream!)

My experience has been that if I try to give anyone any helpful hints on the range, 40% of the time I'll get people who are interested in improving, and 60% of the time I'll just get ego block and denial.

This was an easier decision than most times, since I didn't want to leave my niece unattended.  But it's the same story every time I go to the range.  The horror!  The horror!   

What do you guys think?  Should I just try to ignore people like that, or at least try to help them out?  I could have him shooting much better in about 15 minutes, but with his own little cheering section I figured it would just start an argument.  The worst thing was that I got the impression that this guy had a permit and was considering using this gun as his carry gun.  That's a frightning thought.

Do you guys ever run up against this kind of thing?  How do you handle it?

[Chuck Burnett]

The desire to help others improve and learn new skills is the essence of being an instructor. Good for you.
I confess that I also find it difficult to watch someone shoot badly without having the urge to coach. That said, unless asked, it's not my business unless it's a safety issue that endangers me or others nearby.

No doubt, in the course of my evolution as a shooter, others have also watched me with horror or amusement. (Maybe they still do!)

I have, on occasion, struck up a conversation with a fellow shooter and found an opportunity to share info or offer a tip.
Sometimes the fact that you are shooting well will provide a frame of reference for their level of skill and that will open up a dialogue.

At Front Sight, the instructors step up and shoot a demo on the first morning.
When it's time for the students to shoot, an instructor takes the student's gun and fires one perfect center hit, both to provide a precise aim point for the first drill and to verify that the sights are on.
This immediately removes gun and sight issues as an excuse for poor hits.

A variation on this theme is to comment or ask a question  about the struggling shooter's gun and ask if you can shoot it. If you center punch the target you've showed them a higher standard.
At that point it's up to them to choose to seek improvement or to rationalize and accept mediocrity.
Many gun owners honestly "do not know that they do not know". Lord knows we've all been there.

It is kind of scary that a lot of armed citizens have marginal skills, but self defense is an intrinsic right outside of anyone's mandated skills test.

I was once talking to Hock about the sloppy gun handling skills of the average untrained shooter. He said something to the effect that "Yeah, a lot of old time cops and soldiers are a little sloppy with their gunhandling, but somehow they manage to win gunfights anyway."

Kinda put things in perspective for me.
Doesn't make it easier to watch some yahoo who's learned to shoot by watching The Matrix ten times.
But it helps me accept that not every gun owner is willing to (or needs to) train to a master skill level.
Safe gun handling and handspan size groups at realistic gunfight distances are not that high of a standard.

Chuck

[Lance_Larsen]

Thanks for the good advice.

It is kind of scary that a lot of armed citizens have marginal skills, but self defense is an intrinsic right outside of anyone's mandated skills test.

True enough.  Just like driving.

[Professor]

This weekend I was at the shooting range teaching my 12 year old niece how to shoot a .22 rifle.  On the range next to us was a guy who was trying out a new handgun he just bought.  Of course he brought along his wife and his father (or father in law) to show off his shooting prowess.

He was shooting at 15 yards and was hard pressed to hit within a 1 foot square with a revolver that should have been capable of driving the center out of the target.  He had a horrible grip.  His cheering squad kept telling him how awesome he was shooting, when he decided to adjust his sights to compensate for his lack of shooting skills (AAAAAHHHHH!!!  I could just scream!)

My experience has been that if I try to give anyone any helpful hints on the range, 40% of the time I'll get people who are interested in improving, and 60% of the time I'll just get ego block and denial.

This was an easier decision than most times, since I didn't want to leave my niece unattended.  But it's the same story every time I go to the range.  The horror!  The horror!   

What do you guys think?  Should I just try to ignore people like that, or at least try to help them out?  I could have him shooting much better in about 15 minutes, but with his own little cheering section I figured it would just start an argument.  The worst thing was that I got the impression that this guy had a permit and was considering using this gun as his carry gun.  That's a frightning thought.

Do you guys ever run up against this kind of thing?  How do you handle it?

I wear my vest and get at the far end of the range.     


However if you want to be helpful:  Look for the person the next couple of times at the range, start a conversation......and then it can merge later into a teachable moment.   But, I'll bet that the person is a once a year shooter.     

I know a number of excellent handgun shooters, that can't keep a tighter pattern on target with an AR-15 than they can with their handgun at the same distance.   Should they be able to?  Absolutely.....are they willing to learn, nope.   Eventually, I get to most of them...but, you have to be patient.   An old saying is that when the student is ready to learn a teacher willl be there to teach them -- sounds like the student's not ready for the teacher....be patient as a teacher and wait for the student.

YMMV,

Jeff 

[jmech]

I would avoid trying to correct him while his cheerleaders are there, it's more likely to put him on the defensive, or make him feel like he has to prove to the cheerleaders how good he is and better than you he is.

I would try to engage him in casual conversation over time, and come around to "gun talk".  Comment favorably on his weapon, and he'll probably let you fire a couple rounds with it to "give it a whirl".  If he really thinks its a sight problem, he'll "warn you" about it.  Then when you put a couple rounds in a nice tight pattern, you have your ice breaker, especially if he comments about how good your shooting was.

That's how I would approach it anyway.  Just seems less likely to put him on the defensive or keep you from coming across as a know-it-all.  Lets face it, guys at the range just love to talk about guns.  Use that....

Joe

[Daggs]

This weekend I was at the shooting range teaching my 12 year old niece how to shoot a .22 rifle.  On the range next to us was a guy who was trying out a new handgun he just bought.  Of course he brought along his wife and his father (or father in law) to show off his shooting prowess.

He was shooting at 15 yards and was hard pressed to hit within a 1 foot square with a revolver that should have been capable of driving the center out of the target.  He had a horrible grip.  His cheering squad kept telling him how awesome he was shooting, when he decided to adjust his sights to compensate for his lack of shooting skills (AAAAAHHHHH!!!  I could just scream!)

My experience has been that if I try to give anyone any helpful hints on the range, 40% of the time I'll get people who are interested in improving, and 60% of the time I'll just get ego block and denial.

This was an easier decision than most times, since I didn't want to leave my niece unattended.  But it's the same story every time I go to the range.  The horror!  The horror!   

What do you guys think?  Should I just try to ignore people like that, or at least try to help them out?  I could have him shooting much better in about 15 minutes, but with his own little cheering section I figured it would just start an argument.  The worst thing was that I got the impression that this guy had a permit and was considering using this gun as his carry gun.  That's a frightning thought.

Do you guys ever run up against this kind of thing?  How do you handle it?

Shoot his target, knock out the center.  Then give advice when he goes, "Wow, how did you do that?"

[gumbey]

i've pretty much been in the same situation myself, except there was no cheering crowd. this shooter just bought himself a new h&k usp .45. i think he was shooting about 5-10 yds. and couldn't even hit the bullseye. i've seen some bad shooters bofore. but i've never seen a no bullseye score. the shots either missed the target or sprayed all over the sillouette. i usually leave the other shooter alone unless he/she does some safety violation. but he introduced himself to me and i did the same to him. he asked me for his help and didn't care if i even shot a whole magazine just to show him the right way since he was a new shooter himself. first thing i did was showing him correct sight picture as well as various grips and stances (preferred he try the weaver first). i then shot a whole magazine, all the shots hitting the bullseye. he was in awe but i told him it does take some time to get used to. i told him also to not flinch and that every shot is supposed to surprise him as well as to keep depressing the trigger until the followthrough is complete. he improved, got more confidence now, and he thanked me. i told him it was a pleasure helping anyone willing to admit his mistakes and learn. wish him luck.