Jim Wagner of Black Belt, Training

[Yuriy]

What do you friends think about Jim Wagner Reality Based Martial Arts?www.jimwagnertraining.com
Budo/Blackbelt magazine has published a lot of his articles last couple of years.

[Hock]

Yuriy,

It seems, he is not what he claims to be!

It seems that public figure/magazine-columnist Jim Wagner, the self proclaimed, First Founding Father and Master Grand Designer of Reality Based Fighting in (1999 by the way, as first proclaimed at the time, in Real Fighting Magazine), has been posted in July, 2008 on the Military-based, POW Network under the "wannabes and frauds" list.

Release of DOD (Department of Defense) papers disclosed that Wagner did only 8 months in the US Army as radio operator, and was certainly not a sergeant or in any special forces as one might be confused into thinking. Who does only 8 months in the US Army? Who would care? No one would care at all, if he hadn't alluded himself off as a veteran Army SGT in the ads and seminars of the very late 1990s and early 2000s. (He, decades years later, and many years after these "veteran-suggestive claims and magazine ads, eventually joined a nice, safe, state California militia - which cannot leave the state and cannot go to any war. Of all of them to choose from? Nice choice for a dedicated "counter-terrorist!")

But, sadly that is not the half of it!
Now, if only there were also POWNetwork-like webpages for claims on policing, martial arts and counter-terrorism secret agents, would we also find the same level of disappointment. Since July and the POW/Fraud announcement, this following, below synopsis has developed and not just about his Army sergeant questions, but his whole training and police mythology. So, just as an overall heads-up, in summary so far from the information collected throughout this thread, it looks rather sad. Like a pretend wannabe. Judge and investigate for yourself.

And one more point. Some of you newer people coming to read this? Wagner has had to change his webpage biography since 2008 and to get in sync all with recent, newer discoveries people made about his confabulated past.

This is the synopsis of discussions in 2008 and 2009.


1) Sgt Wagner was a special, respectable, accomplished dedicated soldier? With SF experience?
Was he a sergeant as he claimed in seminars in the early 2000's - says witnesses? Wagner had to admit in 2008, that he did only eight months, then had a U.S. Congressman get him out  and was never a military sergeant in the 1980s and 1990s.  http://pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies384.htm
Wagner Special Forces book. Does this suggest to you an SF veteran?     
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/0897501640/ref=dp_image_text_0ie=UTF8&n=283155&s=books

Army Summary:  http://www.hockscqc.com/blogs/07-08/index.htm

But he can dodge just a bit of that sordid past now in the California State Militia where they get to meet Gov. Schwarzenegger, President Bush, etc. , get more pictures in regular Army uniform and never go to war, as the state militia doesn't. (Smartest thing he could do is stay on the fringes of things and be the reserve militia.)


2) Wagner ads...was he a rough, tough jailor in a world of shanks and felons as once declared? Working in California's toughest prisons?  No, it seems? He worked for years in a 6-hour temp, holding tank/jail in a very, small, calm city? So state his co-workers...


3) Wagner was ever on a SWAT team member? No!
    Seems No. He was not. Never. See:
    http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4084.0.html
    Attorney Sam Browning of Bullshido first broke the story with a signed statement from a
    member of the Costa Mesa SWAT team. Others followed.

          - Despite all that babble about SWAT.
          - All those photos of him in SWAT gear.
          - All the seminars where he actually showed up in full SWAT gear, including the helmet.
          No SWAT. None. Never. Zip.
   
Wagner admits this now anyway, I think still, half-heartedly? THAT is confusing. Now he's had to admit he has never been a "trigger-puller/door-kicker," SWAT qualified team member on a  SWAT team and he failed the qualification test.
He should not play semantics/word games when he actually was just a "back-office-support"
person as if this qualifies him to "say" he "earned" a "position" and say he  "was" on a SWAT team. He was suddenly released from that support position and was replaced by an unarmed, untrained city park ranger, so says DEA Jeff Clancy and his police co-workers and signed statements as collected by attorney Browning. California police officers state that Wagner failed a SWAT team PT test. And never took a second one.


Costa Mesa SWAT team said Jim was very good at helping out, drawing maps and so forth, but something happened and they kicked him out. He didn't even know why, and was surprised to see later that a parks employee, untrained and unarmed, take his helper position.



4) Wagner was sniper certified and trained by the Marines?
This is certifcate on Wagner's page thats caused a ruckus among vets, but maybe it was just a two-day, "open" course with HSS International, that he helped out at or attended? Again, I don't care about this, but some do. http://pownetwork.org/phonies/phonies384.htm
Some general intel on the real 10-week Marine Sniper course:   
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/marines/a/marinesniper.htm


5) Wagner says he taught many Marines and other military units as a solo, sought-after, super expert in a "myriad" of courses. But, it seems he was just another employee of HSS . HSS got the gigs, not Wagner or his superman reputation Yet, He just later claimed that they were his own gigs in ads?  So says, former associates. And, then said more of the same about other gigs too? 

Pretend seminar hype? Like the London Metro Police training story, see the weaseling on this one - 
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4054.0.html

Isreali militray reps have reported here below that Wagner has really distorted his visit there into some sort of special forces teaching gig. Not so. See entries below.
(Lots of pictures though huh? Lots and lots of group pictures. He was in the group.)


6) Wagner is not an Inosanto instructor. Never was. So what? who cares? But we are told he claimed this to some people in seminars, in the past?  See:
http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4043.0.html


7) The Orange County SO reserve volunteer, unpaid, "career" ? -
For a short period of time, he was an unpaid, volunteer police reserve for the county. Seems he was forced to leave, so say former co-workers in statements. Multiple infractions. One infraction was overstating his postion (imagine that). One overstatement was this "bodyguard of the sheriff," in a dignitary protection team. And, they claim he was in trouble for representing himself as a full-timer and not an unpaid, volunteer.  Wagner told a co-worker, "this is the end of police career," when forced to leave. this co-worker has written me an unsolicitited letter about all this. The letter includes a list of other officers ready to testify to this and more. I thionk I can safely say that Wagner was not a popular reserve.

In summary, he was fired from a job that is a volunteer, unpaid, "non-job."


8- Air Marshals short 1-year career. After only a few months of flying after training school , and assigned to common flights as a comon air marshal, he quickly fell into legal troubles? Within months, the Feds collected his gun, badge and creds at the end of August 2002? He next quickly resigned in Sept, 2002. (Resignation letters can say anything, can't they?) Still...then, shortly after sudden exit, a "veteran" of a mere few months experience, Wagner re-invented himself, confabulated those months into becoming this super agent campaign, Front-line war on terrorism (how would he define soliders in Afghanistan?) and a counter-terrorism expert/hero of Black Belt Magazine with  140 "counter-terrrorism" missions. No one was told these missions were actually...airline flights? (as a marshal co-worker put it to me, "counter-terrorism missions? We call them...flights")

9) HSS. Seems many of Wagner's seminars creds actually belong to HSS International, a larger group or real vets he worked for? Even the German GSG9 he loves to taut was an HSS gig? That is what we are told here. We do know he first ignored completely ignored HSS in his bio? Why? It positions Wagner as a one minor player in a crowd of actual vets, not a solo, special, sought-after expert. Until really called out on these issues in the summer of 2008, 

    - HSS never mentioned, then called out on it -
    - then HSS appeared briefly in his bio as "Hide, Stalk, Shoot," (not today's popular name.)
    - then when called out on this point, he next used the popular HSS name
    - next, he said he once owned HSS!
    - when called out on that...he quickly said he just owned shares in HSS...
    - and blah, blah, blah.

    He was actually fired from HSS and is unsuitable for re-hire. This is a public statment from
    HSS. See http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4054.0.html


10) JIMH here, has intensively examined the Wagner ad campaign, picking out numerous things and watched Wagner change his webpage, sometimes daily sometimes to CYA (that's "cover your ass") on the developing facts uncovered by these other people.

11) Examined by veteran agent Jeff Clancy of the DEA, as he knew Wagner during these times, and also investigated Wagner, growing tired of hearing Wagner's over-bragging about solo appearances of teaching the DEA and other law enforcement groups. (Wagner, helping Chris St. George of Canada, did once assist a George DEA class. Thus the DEA group picture  (lots of pictures huh?) A DEA agent told Wagner "just gets an 'assist' " on that one too.")
 
Jeff suggests readers need to question the story behind each of the "class" group photos on Wagner's page, (as they should with anyone.)
Read  http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4080.0.html


In short, I think it is probable that things Wagner told Black Belt Magazine, Budo Magazine, Bokker Knives and you the consumer, may really be way, way false and flaky? Especially all this SWAT stuff! Read on below as all this developed through time. Make your own educated guesses. Investigate. Ask the posters. Private email them for the inside stories. 

We would love to clear it all up and rescue Wagner's reputation. Seriously! I have very easily, ignored, and rather peacefully co-existed with Wagner on the seminar curcuit for years. So, I really don't care. (I admit, I have certainly teased him and called him "Jack Buaer" of "24" as I have never could grasp his amazing background, especially the mysterious counter-terrorism part). So read on from here down below and see how this strange story has slowly developed since July, 2008.

Of course, I would also quickly clarify and remove ANYTHING that would be found wrong or a lie about him, (or anyone or anything on this forum) Just tell me and have a little proof! No hair-splitting semantics please? So, readers here must make their own judgements.

We also implore ANY Wagner students, friends and instructors to make any commentaries in Wagner's behalf. This far, since July 2008. None have. Not one. Not a single one. Not a single person. the opposite has happened.

I await to clear Wagner's name on any of this. From ANYONE!
(Wagner told me himself, he would - then he backed out. I don't think he can explain himself.)
Its almost a year now and I have not been able to clear up anything.

Hock

[Joe Hubbard]

An interesting development in regard to JW's Scout Sniper Certification, shown on wagner's page and on the POW Network page:

I showed a USMC friend of mine, I worked with daily, a copy of JW's Scout Sniper Certificate and this guy just cracked up laughing.  For starters he said just look at the dates- Jan 3rd through Jan 5, 1993. 

            There is no way anyone would receive a sniper's certification in two days. 

Some general intel on the 10-week Marine Sniper course:   http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/marines/a/marinesniper.htm

Then, the marine supervisor told me, if the certificate was bona fied, it would have the signature of the training officer and the officer in command of the school.  Finally, and this is coming from two serving Marines; no one except a Marine gets a Scout Sniper Certificate!  They said it would be possible for Law Enforcement to maybe receive a Sniper's Certificate, but not a Scout Sniper's Certificate.  Then read the letter that JW is using as confirmation of this training dated a year after the certificate was allegedly given to him.  The letter just says that he was just helping the Marines out, that's it!  Further to that, if you go on his website  and click on the PDF link Page 2 Firearms, the caption reads, "Jim Wagner received his Scout Sniper Training from Costa Mesa SWAT, U.S. Marines, German GSG9 and the U.S. Marshalls. 

Wow, that's a tall order and bordering on fraudulent.  I mean was he in GSG9?  Obviously not.  I know he says he has trained them, but so has Hock (members attending group training) but there isn't that sort of time when you are travelling doing seminars to take 3-4 months out to do a sniper course.  Then click on PDF Page 1 Firearms and read that he was a firearms instructor for the U.S. Marines at Camp Pendleton.  My friends from Uncle Sam's Misguided Children laughed and said that will be the day when, and I quote - 

"some chubby out-of-shape, police reserve from Costa Messa
will come and show the Marines how it's done."

He joins the Army in 1980 and does 8 months.  8 weeks of basic training, 3-4 weeks of extended radio operator school, 2 weeks to get stationed to a post.  That's roughly 3 1/2 months.  He says in was in a combat unit, but where did he serve?  He was discharged after 8 months, so in fact, once he was stationed somewhere, he only served for 4 1/2 months.  My Marine buddies say there would only be two main reasons for this- mental or physical disability or failure to adapt, or a weird recruitment deal. So he is out in 1981 and gets into art design and marketing until 1989. 

Note: his resume says he joined corrections officer duty in 1988, but his corrections certificate says 1989.  From there it appears that he was never much in the police? DARE program? Shopping mall cop? But from a full-time Costa Mesa cop droppe to a Costa mesa police reserve?

Also note throughout his  (older) resume he says he has extensive years of experience in Special Operations.  He has had to change all that now. But, I guess he was an operator of sorts, but just a radio operator who lasted 4 1/2 months and went whining to his Congressman.

Out

Joe

[Joe Hubbard]

Special Forces history that he can;t access and change? And here it is:

http://www.amazon.com/Becoming-Cop-DVD-Sgt-Wagner/dp/B0007YN6UK

Product Description
Taught by Sgt. Jim Wagner, creator of the Reality Based Personal Protection system. A police officer

with over 13 years experience in SWAT, Corrections, Special Forces   [/u]
(no SWAT either by the way)

, and the Military, Wagner has taught hundreds of police courses world-wide, including Brazil, Argentina, Israel, FBI and CIA. This video will teach you, step by step, everything you ever wanted to know about combat with a knife, and other ...." (all as an employee through HSS)

Check out the Jack Web pictures!

Out

Joe
 

(complete product description: Product Description -
Taught by Sgt. Jim Wagner, creator of the Reality Based Personal Protection system. A police officer with over 13 years experience in SWAT, Corrections, Special Forces, and the Military, Wagner has taught hundreds of police courses world-wide, including Brazil, Argentina, Israel, FBI and CIA. This video will teach you, step by step, everything you ever wanted to know about combat with a knife, and other edged weapons. The only way you're going to know how to defend against these grizzly weapons is to become and expert yourself, and that's what you will learn in this DVD. You will learn the 12 angles of attack and how to counter them, speed and reaction drills, prison yard methods, and more important, transition to your sidearm during a suprise knife attack. You'll lean how to not get SHANKED. Approx. 93 mins. )

[JimH]

Here is another version of JW's Bio by this guy Foster whom it seems plasters JW's name and books all over the place.

There was an article on the California State Military Reserve,which JW is. The article spoke of a self defense course given to a unit under the CSMR, run by a bunch of members of the CSMR who are/were Police Officers and Military Veterans. All listed had military and Police training and years,along with martial art rankings. JW was listed as One of the Instructors, but in the Instructor BIO it never mentioned any Police service, any SWAT Service, any Air Marshall service,any Jail guard Service, it only said JW was a noted Self Defense authority and black Belt Magazine contributor.

Why no mention of any of this other experience, training and service? Maybe because the men with him were the real deal and he couldn't BS them, or legally BS on a Government form and site.

He sure got A LOT of training out of the department in a couple of years before he had to travel the world teaching his brand of Elite Knife and SelfDefense tactics.

According to this bio,he was influenced by the Military and Police Realistic sceanrio training.
NOTHING IS NEW just Repackaged.

Even his NEW BOOK,Defensive Tactics for Special Operations is misleading, unless he is talking about some kind of SWAT training as Special Operations? (I always thought Special Operations, Military or Police, was an offensive mission based Unit,lol.)

Any way here is the Bio:

At the age of 14, Jim Wagner began to study his life long pursuit of self-defense by beginning his study of the marital arts.  Four years later he joined the United States Army. In 1991 Jim Wagner, sponsored by the Costa Mesa Police Department, entered the police academy (Orange County Sheriff’s Department Training Academy Class 104). Like his military training before, Jim Wagner was deeply influenced by the police academy’s realistic conflict scenarios.

During his career with the Costa Mesa Police Department, Jim Wagner earned a place on the SWAT team. It was through this conduit that Jim learned about logistics, command post operations, hostage negotiations, entry team tactics, and sniping. On the job training included courses with LAPD SWAT, the U.S. Army Special Forces, the Orange County Sheriff’s Department Tactical Training Center, and from U.S. Marines Division Schools Camp Pendleton (Advanced Sniper Course, Military Operations Urban Terrain, Helicopter Rope Suspension Training, and Range Safety Officer).

While conducting a myriad of courses at Camp Pendleton, both military units and other law enforcement agencies using the base for their own training discovered Jim Wagner’s unique approach to training and his seamless blending of defensive tactics with edged weapons and firearms skills. Before long he was getting offers from the United States Marine Corps, U.S. Marshals Special Operations Group, Department of Defense Police, California Highway Patrol, California Department of Corrections, San Diego Sheriff’s Department, Los Angeles Probation Department, U.S. Border Patrol, Immigration & Naturalization Service, U.S. Navy and U.S. Marines Provost Marshal Office, Drug Enforcement Administration. By 1996 Jim found himself being invited by foreign unit to train in their own countries: GermanGSG9, Brazilian G.A.T.E., Argentinean G.O.E., Royal Canadian Mounted Police, London Metropolitan Police, Helsinki Police Department, and various units in Spain, Mexico, and Israel.

The demand on Jim Wagner’s time was overwhelming and in 1999 he decided to resign from the Costa Mesa Police Department and started teaching full time. Not wanting to fully give up his law enforcement career Jim applied as a Reserve Deputy at the Orange County Sheriff’s Department. Jim Wagner is the author of Reality Based Personal Protection.  

Designed as a companion book to Jim Wagner’s best-selling instructional DVD series, Reality-Based Personal Protection provides eight detailed chapters. According to the book description, “Reality-Based Personal Protection system covers the complete tactical spectrum of pre-conflict, conflict and post-conflict techniques and training methods for a wide variety of worst-case scenarios. Mastering these tactics will educate you on the dangers of the modern world and how to survive them. This must-have manual covers: knowledge domain and conflict rehearsal; defensive tactics using strikes, threat zones and stopping power; using the ground to your advantage; surviving a knife attack and countering effectively; military techniques and training methods for handgun proficiency; how to protect yourself and others in criminal-assault scenarios; preparing for and surviving terrorist attacks; a special section for women’s self-defense tactics.  In this highly-anticipated book, Jim Wagner shares more than three decades of martial arts, police, military and special-agent training through highly detailed conceptual explanations, charts and captioned photo sequences. Coupled with his personal experience in the field and at some of the world’s most prestigious training facilities, the techniques and tactics of Reality-Based Personal Protection form the basis for the ultimate modern self-defense system.”

Defensive Tactics for Special Operations
Jim Wagner  More Info
 
Reality Based Personal Protection
Jim Wagner  More Info
 
Defensive Tactics: For Proffessionals And Civilians
Jim Wagner  More Info
 
According to the book description of Defensive Tactics for Special Operations, “The techniques and methods that form the basis of military and combat defensive training are detailed in this insightful guide from a personal protection expert. Chapters provide instruction on knife defense, unarmed fighting, weapon retention, and arrest and control techniques. Police and military personnel as well as self-defense instructors and students at all levels will benefit from simple instructions and step-by-step exercises.”

© 2006 - 2008 Raymond E. Foster

[chfroehlich]

On Sergeant Jim's HP:

On 26 January 2006, by order of Governor Arnold Swartzenegger, Jim Wagner was appointed in the California State Military Reserve (CA SMR), State Order 6-026-R-03 to the rank of Specialist (SPC/E4) assigned to the 40th Infantry Division (Mechanized) Support Brigade with the duty assignment of Physical Security NCO with the Provost Marshal Office (Military Police) where he serves to this day. Then in March Jim Wagner was awarded the rank of sergeant (SGT/E5) after successful completion of Basic Orientation Course at Camp Parks, California.

[Joe Hubbard]

I wonder though, if he was called up to go to Afghanistan, would he go?  Would he serve for his country and put his life on the line?  I wonder.  Interestingly, he ran an ad in a French magazine with a photo of him, alone, with a scarf, by a Humvee where the caption read, "Here is Jim Wagner training U.S. Army troops on their way to Afghanistan."  he is just standing there alone. No troops? With a...scarf around his neck. In America.

What's even more interesting is that ad has never ran stateside.

Out

Joe

[JimH]

I wonder when the Gov Arnold Schwarzenegger paper will make it to a PDF on JWs bio?
The ranking will of course be blurred out,for security reasons.

MA community?
It is about 15-20 years since Joe Lewis,Master of Karate not boxer,attempted to head and require  a board of examiners to certify Instructors and schools.

Luckily it never took hold,as said,who was to decide what and or who was legit and what groups would get hold and keep others out.
(had there been a board,would Bruce Lee have been allowed to open a school?)

It is a shame that people can BS their way to the top with minimal training and experience but people do this everyday in the World of Business,Education other skills required jobs.

This is why sites like Hocks that allow people to discuss the Good and Bad of Instructors and Arts is good,it is sort of a self policing and is readable by the public IF they ever BOTHERED to run a search.

Again JW teaches BASIC applications which are usable,it is his EXAGERATED Self Promotion which  upsets most.
As the Exagerations are disinformation which he uses to sell what he teaches to the public through Ads and Mags.

You think you are getting a legit Instructor who has Truely Been there and done that.

If you had a Man/woman who claimed to have worked at Harvard,you might think wow,what credentials,if you paid money to learn something from them and then found out what they meant by worked at was they were a Janitor not a teacher would you be upset?
Some might say well the information given was basically correct
but
The way it was sold should be questioned.

If you helped an Old Person or Blind Person cross the road,would you claim you saved them from being struck by a car
or
If you gave a bum a quarter whould you say you rescued/saved  a Family from poverty?

Exagerations,similar to the stuff JW comes up with, should upset the legit.

Every thing he does,is Done to move himsef to another area of self promotion period.

Just like Joining the California State Military Reserve.
Why was it done?
To me ,it was done because the advancement of the law against phonies milking the public with claims of STOLEN VALOR.
Once people began to crack down on these people his appearances in BDU's and in combat or Police Gear stopped.
As soon as he Joined the CSMR he was back on the front page of Black Belt in a Legit uniform,which so Happens to be the same uniform as the Military just with differnet patches,which required a Magnifying glass to see what they were,then one would have had to look up the patches and realize they were not US Military Official.
Now he CANNOT be charged with Impersonation of a Police Officer or a member of the Military.

He now has documentation as an NCO,as a Provost Marshall/MP and is recognized by the Gov as a PHYSICAL SECURTITY Specialist.
This is good for alot of press/articles.

Look at how he worked the radio room of a central base that Gov Schwarzenegger visited during a recent rash of Fires,it became a story of his and the Govs lives being intertwined.
LOL
PLEASE

[Hock]

Wagner will never have to serve in Afghanistan or Iraq. the California militia does not go. So where abouts is a Jim Wagner:Californian Militia-Man in the food chain of command? In the big picture, he is a safe at home, and in a way, many readers of Black Belt worldwide may not know of these various military service chains. Here is some general, military knowledge:

Full Time (and obviously may go war)
  Active Duty Military Army, Navy, Air Force, Marines, Coast Guard

Part Time (and may go to war)
  The National Military reserves
      Reserves Army           http://www.armyreserve.army.mil/ARWEB
      Reserves Navy           http://www.navyreserve.com/
      Reserves Air Force      http://www.afrc.af.mil/
      Reserves Marines        http://www.marforres.usmc.mil/
      Reserves Coast Guard  http://www.uscg.mil/
      The National Guard      http://www.ngb.army.mil/About/default.aspx

Part Time (and may NOT go to war)

       The State-by State “Defense Forces.” Every state has its own small, part
       time support military group, sometimes more than one per state.
       State militias are not sent to fight overseas wars, but handle state emergencies.
       Here is a list of the over 50 http://www.constitution.org/mil/link2mil.htm

       One of these nine militia groups in California is the California State Military Reserves.
       (will not to go war)
       The CSMR is a  volunteer, operational force. Its members are subject to call to state
       active  duty by the Governor of the State of California.
       http://www.calguard.ca.gov/casmr/Pages/default.aspx
       They have done an amazing amount of firefighting.


Hock

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
This came in on another thread and I moved it here to condense the Wagner threads and organize subjects- Hock


Hello,
My name is Elad F., I hope you do not mind me posting what I am about to post and specifically in this military category. I am a current serving member of one of the Israeli government security divisions and a former member of the Israeli special forces.

We have a problem in the Israeli martial arts community now as well with instructors making false claims about their backgrounds and systems, the most publicly well known Israeli instructor making false claims about himself, his background, and his system at the moment is Moni Aizik. But, I wanted to make a comment about another point of Mr. Jim Wagner's advertising that is an issue to us.

He claims that he instructed the Israeli Special Forces units and the Israeli police.

Both of those claims are also false. Through Avi Nardia he had a seminar arranged to teach at civilian section of Wingate. Wagner claimed that the seminar was for special forces members, but it was open to the public, and even teenagers attended. There could have been former or current IDF special unit members there, but it was not an official seminar for the army.

Also, I know that he advertises that he trained the Israeli police. He was granted an invitation for a tour of BASACAM, the Israeli police operational training center, and he was there for a tour. But he never taught there.

I would be interested in hearing him comment on this as well.

Thank you.

Elad.

[JimH]

Let's see:
The letter from Gov schwarzenegger says that JW is to be asigned as a provost marshall,security specialist for a Transport unit of the CSMR.

A guard for trucks used in a state emergency,at a job that asks for one,8 hour, day a month time commitment,learning your job?
Learning to be a Guard for a Transport unit.

Can anyone say coffee and donut day.

JW says that during the fires in CA he was manning the radio at the Central Headquarters when Arnold Schwarzenneger came by,he must have meant he was watching the Radio/Commo Trucks,lol.

Again,watch how many articles and qualifications come from this unit membership.

[arsenalgunna]

I just got done reading Wagner's response.  Took damn near 20 minutes.  Hock wasn't kidding about the self-aggrandisement.  For a guy that supposedly used to work for a greeting card company, I would think he could keep it short and sweet.

[JimH]

Mr Wagner,
I have defended your art on this and other forums as the materials being usable and doable,though very basic.

I believe that you exaggerate your life for the sale of your course.

You quoted me as saying the following about you:
"3 months riding on a plane makes someone an anti terrorist  
specialist, lol."

Well Sir,I know people who were the First Sky Marshalls and Sky Marshalls since inception through to Air Marshalls.

Before 9/11 the sky/air Marshall program was on the tail end ,almost extinct.
They were ANTI HIJACKERS and still are.

It seems Anti Terror specialists has become the Big Name to throw out like Special Operations,(which you know about since you titled your new books and tapes on it)

Are the screeners who get near minimum wage at the airports Anti Terror specialists?
Yes they are.

I like the your story of being a SGT in the CSMR, the one day a month program,as being part of Homeland Security and the reason you are entitleds to wear and claim some military identity.


In 2003 ,your first class in NYC you said you had been an NCO in the US Army in an Infantry Unit and had seen how your previous martial arts training had NOT prepared you

for the Fights you had to Brake Up Between YOUR Men.
(so you claimed Military rank not awarded you prior to CSMR)

You also claimed to be a JKD Instructor under Dan Inosanto and Training partner to Paul Vunak.
How true is that.

You claim you left the US Army because of a foul up in your attempt to get into the Warrant Officer Flight Training Program. It was wait 6 months to go to the program or your recruiter told you you could do Basic and AIT then go to the program,right?

Why did you not go in the army as a reservist and do Basic and AITDid you sign a CONTRACT with the Government for X number of years? If so did that contract say you would be released to the WOFTP after AIT? An Enlisted person can go to the WOFTP No?
You were in 8 months and 12 days and said it took months to get it resolved?

The WOFTP is what (weeks, two months,then 6 weeks warrant officer school,then flight school.
Since you joined to get basic and AIT out of the way (AIT was not needed) and you had 6 months till the course went off,6 months plus 9 weeks is the Exact time you got out of the US Army,and you COULD HAVE gone to WOFTP anytime from then to 3 years you say.
Well why didn't you go to the WOFTP?

Something is Bogus in your story sir.

You exaggerate your life story and you profit from peoples misconceptions about your background.
If people knew you did 8 months in the Military,most of it trying to get out,would your military count.

If they knew you were a Reserve Police Officer and Reserve Homeland Security ,would they come to your classes. If they knew you did 3 months sitting in a seat as you say.would they come to your class.

As Said If you helped an old Lady acrodss the road it would be you saved her live in a traffic  incident.

You do not even see that your stories are exaggerated.

Your response in Blitz is a Book on your life,with you telling people well this is true because I did this and it counts for that. It counts for what it is not comitted to start and finish anything.
To use that which can benefit you most,period.

I am sure the joining of the CSMR was done when you came up with the idea of your Special Operations Books and Tapes,to Legally wear the uniform or truely be a phony of Stolen Valor.
(looks good in the books and Mags,wearing the uniform,sells alot)

I would also lie to know your qualifications with Mortars, M60s,and Heliborne operations that your background and experience helped the  MI Det of the 19th SF. Do you have qualifications above the Pilots,crew chief and the SF Jumpmasters and riggers?

It is all smoke and mirrors,something you must have learned sitting on a bunk looking out the window in the military watching the others break their butts. Hope that PRC 77 wasn't too heavy,lol.

How many Military  units CONTRACTED YOU for PAY to come and teach them?
How many did you send letters to for letters of appreciation in return.

Lets get real.

You may not be a Liar but you are quilty of misleading with exaggerated claims.

[Milldog1776]

Sergeant my ass!

http://www.pownetwork.org/pownet.secure/wagner_james_l.pdf

[JimH]

Quote from Jim wagners RBSD site:
Jim Wagner, the founder

"If you had a desire to learn how to sky dive or SCUBA dive for the first time, would you want to learn from someone who has never jumped from an airplane before or someone who only got their underwater experience from a swimming pool? Of course not, and yet most civilian self-defense instructors have never been in an actual life-and-death conflict, and are merely passing down information given to them from their instructors. Even if they have been in the proverbial “bar fight” in their past the question must be asked, “Have they been shot at, attacked with a knife, or looked into the eyes of a criminal or terrorist?”


Mr Wagner the above is from your site,correct?

You portray yourself in the Above as one of the few Instructors who has  been in real Life and Death conflicts.
You ask the potential student/Instructor/ Buyer if their Instructor has ever been shot at,attacked with a knife or looked into the eyes of a terrorist?

I ask Have YOU?
The Terrorist you say you think you spotted turned out not to be a terrorist at all,correct/
So how many terrorists have you looked into the eyes of?

How many times have you been shot at?
In 2003,In NYC,you said you HAD NEVER BEEN SHOT AT.

How many times have you been attacked by a knife weilding attacker?
Twice you said,one a man rolled over while on a bed and half lunged at you and the other was a surprise abdominal stab but you had a vest on,if I remember right.

I am an assistant Instructor and when I attended your course I ahd already been shot at Multiple times,I had been in a handful or just over knife attacks and I had looked into the eyes of several Terrorists arrested and found guilty in the first world trade center bombing.
When I looked into the terrorists eyes they looked like regular people to me.
The knife attacks were people trying to kill me on the street and not a person sleeping on a couch who rolled over with a blade when shaken.
The shots fired at me were also meant to kill me.

Is being shot at,in a few knife fights and looking into terrorists eyes the mark needed to be reached to be a REAL Martial Arts Instructor,like you?


You say would someone want to learn to jump from a plane from a person who has never jumped.
I ask would you want to learn to jump from a person with a few jumps or some one who has dedicated alife time to jumping.

In the world of experiences you my friend are the one with a few jumps and others a life time dedicated to jumping.

Your life of experiences fit more with an actor learning a role for an acting job.
I guess this fits the articles you used to write about trying a martial art for 3 months the move on to another as three months shows you the basics.

In 2003 you said you flew as an Air Marshall for 3 months WITHOUT INCIDENT,now you have terrorist captures under your belt.

The more time that goes by the more you did,must be one of those secrets clauses that you can only talk about a little at a time as the years pass.

I wonder why someone who put so much time around the Military over these years could not hack a few year enlistment?
I guess it was like saying you wanted to be a Warrant Officer,go right to the top with little bottom time exposure.
Now you travel around,act like the top dog,they believe your stories and maybe they will let you play with their toys.
Yep Better than humping that heavy ole PRC 77, better than testing your mental/physical make up at Ranger or Special Forces School.
Yep quitting because you really wanted to be a Helo pilot,but didn't realize you signed a contract to serve as an enlisted man,that is the mental and physical make up of a Warrior.

PS:
Your concept for Reality Based Schools is that they should have lights on Dimmers,Beds,Living rooms,cars,bars.
Well I have trained in those places in the late 60's to the 80's under men like Frank Ryan and Johnny Kuhl,so what is your NEW Contribution to the world of Real Combat arts?
The claim to the name RBSD?
I don't think so

[JimH]

Mr Wagner,
On your site you say that you coined the phrase REALITY Based Officially in 2003.

In Black Belt Magazine Sept 1993, pg 88, there is an ad By a Mr McDougal and Mr Farrow
(Both Black Belt Mag contributors)

The Ad is For:
REALITY Personal Defense Techniques

The ad Reads:
Bring Life to Today's SCENARIO'S from Today's Headlines with
REALITY Personal Defense Techniques.

I have said Over and Over "REALITY" was Around In its term and concepts LONG Before You used it.