Jim Wagner of Black Belt, Training

[Hock]

Sorry, but this came in to me from an "expired" Wagner student and instructor...

"During one particular scenario in the Crime Survival course, Mr. Wagner had the class go to a local coffee shop. We were told to be observant for 15-20 minutes, and not talk to each other. When we returned, we were asked to remember every detail in the coffee shop and were quizzed."

I think I will run this exercise too! Oh, about 10:30ish each morning of each seminar day?
 
This reminds me of people paying Paul Vunak thousands and they go to a basketball court and play basketball for "footwork" drills for four hours.

Organized trips to topless bars (real troublespots) should be designed next.

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By the way, mentioning W.R. Mann, just reached him for a hello. On Wagner he says,

"Yes, I have posted several of Jim's articles on my site and I also recommend his seminars. I have
endorsed him because he provides unique and useful subject matter in his seminars and in his
articles."    - W.R Mann 


Hock

[Milldog1776]

So the whole bio has changed now:

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner.html

I couldn't sit through the whole thing, but looks like everytime one of us brings something up...he writes more.

[Samuel Browning]

http://www.bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=72918&page=11

This is a link to post #101, which contains a summary of a short interview with Officer Phil Hartman of the Costa Mesa police.  I promise it will be an interesting read.

[Samuel Browning]

Someone (not myself) just opened up a thread on the Black Belt Magazine forums asking Jimmy to answer the 13 questions.

The link is below 

http://blackbeltmag.com/cgi-bin/forums/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=5;t=598

[Samuel Browning]

I went over to his site, and didn't see where he addressed the comments made by Officer Phil Hartman.
Also see http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,4084.0.html

[Milldog1776]

He still does not address much. There are some JKD certs. up now. More on that in a minute...

Jim is performing a classic trial lawyer move. Instead of answering Hock's simple 13 questions, he is writing page after page of background non-essentials hoping that people will get lost or simply not take the time to read it.

Like I said...lawyers do the same thing. You request a simple piece of evidence, a phone record, bank transactions, etc....and the lawyers send you a mountain of evidence instead.  The piece of evidence you really want is there alright...probably mislabeled, out of order, and buried under a mountain of other shit.

Back to the Innosanto certs.
http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/JKD_cert_page.pdf
http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/images/Aspen_cert_page.pdf
One is for Eskrima and the other is for Wing Chun.
One is for 40 hours of training while the other is for 20 hours of training.
So if he went to class twice a week for an hour each time...that's what?....6 months of training. I don't see how that is helping his case by posting those. Niether by the way say "Instructor".

[Joe Hubbard]

These are both certificates of attendance- nothing more.   It would be like going to a Hock camp, not achieving any rank status and then post your certificate of attendance on your website.

Everybody who runs in any JKD circles knows that Wagner has never had any strong links or connections with the JKD community.  Where is the confirmation of your rank Jimbo. 

Has anybody let Paul Vunak know that JW has been going round teaching seminars and using Paul's name as long time training partners?  I would be interested what Paul has to say about that.

Out

Joe

[JimH]

Looking at the dates the certificates are from the following statement on Jim wagner's website:
Quote
"In 1978 Jim Wagner went to a 60 hour martial arts training camp, called the Aspen Academy of Martial Arts, nestled in Aspen, Colorado and took lessons from little known instructor at the time Dan Inosanto - protege of the late Bruce Lee. "

Is this training CAMP and the certificates of attendance what is to be seen as his Instructorship Certificate In JKD?? LOL
(Was Dan into Reality Based where one does not have to train long to be certified to teach??)

On the bottom left hand side of the Escrima certificate it lists 9 courses of the Inosanto Academy.

Were those 9 Courses offered in the 60 hours at Aspen?
or
Just the Escrima and wing chun?

I ask as I would bet all 9 courses were taught and of the 9 you,Mr Wagner,decided to participate in 2.
They are signed by Dan Inosanto but I would question if he taught all 60 hours  of those two subjects as alluded to or if he was the over all Instructor with assistants teaching

MR Wagner Please Post the Instructorship Certificate for you to TEACH JKD.


I have certificates for Hapkido seminars that equal approx 400 hours,those alone do not qualify me to teach Hapkido.

[Joe Hubbard]

Check this out for JW's martial arts background:

http://web.archive.org/web/20030714075340/http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/Jim_Wagner.html

Then go to his current page and read where he now has included Ted Lucay Lucay (deceased) was where he got the majority of his Kali / JKD training from. 

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner.html

Does this clown have no scruples?

Out

Joe

[Joe Hubbard]

The dates on those certificates are identical, which leads me to believe that they were both given for attendance to the Aspen Camp.  I guess that adds up to a week or two of training.  He then claims on his site that he carried on for two years studying with Dan, but nothing to show for it; really not one certificate in two years?  I wonder if Burt Richardson knows anything about him as he was part of that Concepts thing at the time.  You know if he attained any rank, he would be whoring that around like a Thai slut with a Desert Eagle cock holster for sure.  He still claims he taught the London Metropolitan police, but his only documented evidence is that silly picture of him in a police uniform while on a drive along.  Again, if he ever did any real training with them he would have a photo and video diary that Steven Spielberg would die for; the whore that he is.

Out

Joe

[JimH]

Wagner does claim training,twice a week with Dan and BURTON,as well as being the training partner of Paul Vunak,lol.

As said,two whole years and not one rank certificate in any of the 9 subject matter classes under the Filipino/Kali school taught in LA by Dan ??

Wagner says he was already teaching out of his home before  any training with Ted Lucay.


Hey,but he has those Aspen certificates,60 hours total must be good for for opening your own JKD school,even if out of your house,lol.

[JimH]

Mr Wagner,
you said you trained with Kyoshi Yamazaki.
(you sid you trained with him in 1977,so what does Arnold Schwarzenegger have to do with it and your being in the same building as Arnold,39 years later?)
You rose to the rank of Green Belt .
You were studying for Brown Belt when you saw a Bruce Lee movie,told Kyoshi Yamazaki you wanted to learn kung Fu,he said it was no good so you left,Correct?

Do you have ranks for the Belts between Green and Brown?

Here is the rank structure from kyoshi Yamazaki's school:
Grade Belt Color Minimum Time in grade
before next test
Recruit White One Month
10th Kyu* Yellow One Month
9th Kyu* Gold One Month
8th Kyu Orange Three Months
7th Kyu Green Three Months
6th Kyu Blue Three Months
5th Kyu Purple Three Months
4th Kyu Red Three Months
3rd Kyu Brown Six Months
2nd Kyu Brown w/ 1 Stripe Six Months
1st Kyu  Brown w/ 2 Stripes Six Months
Shodan Black Two Years
* 9th and 10th Kyu ranks are informal ranks and may be omitted per local instructor's authority.

What happened to Blue,Purple and Red before Brown
to reach Brown Belt would have taken 15 months from Sept 25,1977 ,NO?
That would have been November 1978,No?

Another story you got caught with,LOL.

Maybe it took Kyoshi to Green Belt to see you skills and he was going to jump you to Brown Belt?
I bet that is it right?

[JimH]

Mr Wagner On your site you say
"Jim Wagner hooked up with some Vietnamese immigrants at his High School who taught him Vietnamese kung-fu. He then went to a local Hawaiian kenpo school in Newport Beach until that closed down several months later. The instructor had taken a samurai sword to the school in the middle of the night and completely destroyed the place and became a lumber jack up in Washinton State. One of the black belts, Jeff Huff, who came to the destroyed school at the same moment Jim did, took Jim under his wing as a private student and taught him the very traditional martial art of Po Keck Yin Yang Kung-fu and some ballet dance exercise for balance."

Now you got promoted in Sept 25,77 to green belt,left a short time later.
Joined Dan in aspen August 78
So you trained with all these people,listed above,and NOT A ONE is an Instructor in any style art or form,are they?

You have listed now on your site a Filipino/Kali membership card.
Jim Wagner Class II member 1979,Head Instructor Dan Inosanto
Your Class Instructor Bustillo.

I am wondering why the Name Wagner is smudged up and re written over.
I am wondering why the Letter N in Wagner does not match the "N" in Dan and Inosanto

You say on your site that it is a Membership signed by Dan Inosanto,can you please tell me where on the card Dan's signature is as all the names are printed?
What is a Class II membership?
Is it  the Class taught by Bustillo?

You began teaching JKD and Kali out of your house in 1980,Right?
So in the year of twice a week classes did you become an Instructor?

Quote from your site
"In 1980 Jim started teaching close friends and associates privately under the Jeet Kune Do banner before going into the army."

Did teaching stuff you were not qualified to teach become a habit in 1980 and since you got away with it being a part time student ,you expanded to teaching unqualified materials as a way of life,figuring NO ONE would ever catch on?

I hear a song in my head
Lyrics go something like this:

When the walls come
tumblin' down
When the walls come crumblin' crumblin'
When the
walls come tumblin' tumblin' down

John Cougar Mellencamp seems so fitting

[JimH]

Should we Lleave him alone???

Let's see:
A Phony who is using a padded Bio to make money off of people.
He has embellished his record and is using misinformatioon as means to make money,a CON Artist.
They have those in Prisons don't they?

Customers...you paid Big Bucks for your Certificate from him right? Would you have paid if you knew he was full of it?

What will his instructors do if he goes down? He mentioned me in his Blitz article and fluffed me off as a know-nothing, like his Air Marshall job was a Real Antiterrorism Job. He even defended his Counterterrorism Position as that is what being Vigilant is. Please, are TSA screeners antiterrorism specialists.

I defended his materials and disliked his sales hype and Now I will attack his statements,his sales hype,so perhaps others will not get ripped off.

Anti-Terrorism for an Air Marshall is when some one gets out of their seat,rushes the cockpit,gains entry and tries to take control of the aircraft. If at that time the Air Marshall gets up and stops him by any means needed then he,the Air Marshall,has done his job.

If a man gets up and acts unstable,is that a means for the Air Marshall to blow his cover and act?
No. The Air Marshall acts when the aircraft is under THREAT. If the Air Marshall rides in an aircraft and a Man gets up and tells the stewardess he wants to Hijack the plane to Cuba,is that an act the Air Marshall will act On? Yes, if the Air marshall believes the threat.

Is the act of apprehending the Possible Hijacker an act of Antiterrorism? No.
As the Hijacker had no intention of THREATENING the passengers or crew.

Distinction of Threat and distinction of job.
He SAYS he rode for 140 missions,he rode for 3 months, 5 Max, WITHOUT incident.
He was vigilant, reading his mag,watching the seat back TV and or writing his next Black Belt Article, Give me a Break.

If we read JW's pages on his time as an Anti Terrorism specialist we see all he focused on where Middile Eastern passengers. This is who he selected as a potential threat,which turned out to be a nobody,but he says the man was removed by the Feds. Then the Middle eastern man who followed his friend, another agent,that he called the Orange County Female Officer for, then he goes off on her, that she screwed up.

Always the leader,the Instructor in all he writes and it is all BS. JW is all about the Hype,all about the BS,time to let others Know and let them decide if BS is worth the money to learn basics and BS.

As an Instructor level one certified:
Do you feel you can properly teach anti terrorism and crime survival?

Wagner is teaching theory.
His unarmed skills are basic and are usable as they are found in ALL arts.
Once he gets into his other areas of believed expertise he subjects the student and reader to false sense of secrurity as he is OUT OF HIS DEPTH.

Anyone who believes that civilians in a work place can use his concepts to survive a sniper,a terrorists bombing,a terrorism Bio/chem attack is kidding themselves and he is cashing in on this BS.

Let him produce REAL paper work. Now let him Put up or SHUT DOWN.

[JimH]

LOL
Joe,
Who can keep up with the rewrites LOL.

The names remain the same and the stories change around them.

Before he left Kiyoshi Yamazaki because he wanted to learn Kung Fu,now his family moved away.

Come on Jim get a story and stick to it Please,lol.

So many changes and so little time.

The walls of the stories are caving in,save yourself.

I hope the Editors of Black Belt and BUDO are watching this ever changing show.