Jim Wagner of Black Belt, Training

[JeffC]

I would say that the daily revisions of his bio on his website are a pretty good indicator he's reading these posts. 

Jim, why don't you tell everyone what happened with the Phoenix, Oregon Police Department?  That's a story in a half. 

More later. 

Jeff C

[gematriot]

I would say that the daily revisions of his bio on his website are a pretty good indicator he's reading these posts.

Haven´t been to Wagnr´s site in months, must make a note to go and "watch the show"

[JimH]

Here is some proof of Wagner reading this forum:

quote from Wagners site (as of 8/25/08)

"For all of these reasons combined Jim Wagner resigned from the federal government on September 11, 2002; the one year anniversary of 9/11. Had he stayed on with the program he was to have flown to New York City for a mission. Instead he spent his last day on an HSS International event up at the Burro Canyon Gun Range attending an Israeli firearms course taught by his good friend Major Avi Nardia of the Israel Defense Force (Reserve).

A couple of months later, on January 21, 2003, Jim Wagner formed his own company and started the Jim Wagner Reality-Based Personal Protection system. "

Now Jim had said before that he signed up for the Air Marshal Program right after 9/11.
9/11 was 2001.

Wagner had said he left the air Marshall program on the first anniversary 2003.
first anniversary would have been 2002 ,as I pointed out in my questions on this forum.

I had said ,on this site,that WEagner said he had been gone from the Air Marshall program when he taught the august 2003 course in NY.
Wagner had written that he was still in the Air Marshall program when he taught the course in 2003 in NY but made his RESIGNATION,lol,for Sept 11.
Again that would have been 2003

Wagner said he flew FAM Missions for 1 year.
If we look at his Certifications for the Air Marshall program dated the end of March 2002 and we see where he went to California for a break in period before he actually flew a mission in April 2002
So Wagner started flying in May and was gone by Sept.
6 months on the job Start to finish becoames a year and 146 missions??

In the quote above Jim says he spent the last day as an air Marshall,on 9/11 shooting at an HSS course with Avi Nardia.
NO Checking out for your last day ??
Checking out where you resign,sign your badge and gear back in and sign the papers to FORMALLY Leave the Command?
No check out because the weapons and badge had been GONE by then.
(Was that also Jim's Last Days with HSS before he SOLD his shares,LOL)

If you also look at where Jim had recently mentioned HSS well now,after the question was asked on this forum about classes he took and taught for HSS ,now there is a LONG List of classes  he took and taught at HSS.

YES JIM IS READING THIS SITE
and
CHANGING HIS BIO DAILY
to keep up
LOL

[JimH]

This entry-on this subject from JimH in March 2008, added here to condense threads

I took Wagners course and was certified as an Instructor in his system. His course is very Basic in its teaching and very doable. He tells you that most other stuff out there is too complicated and does not work,to me any thing trained RIGHT works.

Wagner said NO ONE could pull a joint lock off under pressure during a knife attack.
In the first scenario ,a straight line abdominal stab,I pulled off a hand grab ,to a pull,to an elbow strike entry,to a center lock to an arm bar take down on a knife guy from Haganah/FIGHT system and Wagner  was screaming he had NEVER seen one done before.
So what people believe can be done and what can be done is up to each of us.

I took his course and Never said anything to him about my Military experiences,my jobs nor my martial arts training ,nothing about my background,so he believed he had the group figured out and he knew what he could and could not say and I heard ALL the STORIES Flow.

I saw what he teaches and his knowledge,he has a base knowledge of what he speaks about,aside from basic martial skill,most knowledge apparently comes from books over real life expriences. My Primary Job/MOS in Special Forces was 12B/18C ,Combat Engineer with expertise in Explosives,with secondary MOS as 11B so when someone starts to tell you about explosives ,safety,identification, as well as disarming they had better know their stuff,again he knows  basic materials that is found in books.

If someone has an art ,which is any good,it will sell, people will get the word and they will come.
- When you have a magazine outlet backing you it is easier so WHY all the BS Hype ?
- Why the extended Stories of Greatness?
- If you were in the Military fine, why blow it up.
- If you worked in a jail fine,why expand it?
- If you were a Part time, reserve sheriff fine,why make it bigger than that.
- If you were a Sky Marshall ,why turn it into an anti terrorism specialist hired by the
  government?
- If you are a Part time trainer for a civilian guard unit why hype it bigger?
- If you are a No Rank in any martial art with mixed minimal training why make it out that you
  have more credentials then you do?

I am against people or groups who INTENTIONALLY Mislead the Public with BS Stories or stolen valor stories to sell their stuff.

Techniques no matter how basic work,no matter how difficult work,If they ARE TRAINED in the Proper scenario,evaluated and constantly revisted.
I have No problem with Wagner's,Nor anyone elses techniques.
I DO have a Problem with certain Sales/Selling Points,period.

Jim Wagners Knowledge on Survival  in any situation is very limited and questionable, yet he is selling it as an expert,with people, like this Mr Spurlock ,putting their lives in His hands.

 ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Jim Wagner's materials are Very Basic and ARE Usable.
I have NEVER said different about the materials .

Wagner's Approach to dealing with an immediate ,Violent knife attack is to grab/Trap/Pin the weapon bearing limb,very basic,very usable.
His use of stage blood with an oil like viscosity that causes one to fight to control the weapon bearing limb are Very good additions to any training,though very messy.

My problem Again with Wagner and Others is their selling LIES and HYPE to attract people.
They make claims for jobs and Training they have NEVER Had.

Bryan ,
I love the idea that you have attacked me on other posts for saying that Wagner's materials are usable and then you try and make out that I have suddenly had a change of heart ,or conscious, about him .( I can differentiate the Person and their sales points from the Material)

As I have said before the Karate chimp can probably teach some one something if the Techniques are Basic and usable.

I had used stage blood before as an indicator of injury from a knife,blunt force or gun attack.
I had never used it in relation to being on my hands when trying to grip,hold or disarm.

If Wagner erased all his BS HYPE and Fairy Tale Past I would have no problem with him.

As far as positive comments about a course/s:

I also have a similar post written about Moni Aizik's course.

I also have written some about W R Mann's courses.

I have written some about Mr Perkins Courses.

I have written Loads of similar letters about the MATERIALS Taught.

When you attend a persons training and at they end they ask you for comments I always write a favorable one because I ALWAYS walk away Having learned SOMETHING/S of use.

If people use the HYPE and SALES Pitch to attend thinking they are training with a person with Vast experiences and actual hands on employment then they are being suckered.

If a person goes ,as I did ,to experience something new and if they have an open mind they will leave with something new.

Quote Bryan:
"After all a Special Forces Operator like JimH must know his shit? Or does he? "

In the Wagner Course I took we had WR Mann,with his vast experiences and training with many legends of Reality based concepts.(Blauer,Dimitri,Kelly McCann/aka Jim Grover,Cestari and many,many others)
    * We had Instructors from Haganah
    * A Shoot Fighter/ catch as catch can Instructor out of Virginia.
    * We had a semi Pro boxer,NYPD Officer.
    * An NYPD Narcotic Detective.
    * Several others with their own special backgrounds.

All gave the course a positive review as All came with an open mind. Perhaps they are all stupid to,or they do not have the background and experiences they claim? At least I am willing to spend my money,go out a find training ,put my butt on the Mat and train,learn and grow.

[Hock]

"If Wagner erased all his BS HYPE and Fairy Tale Past I would have no problem with him."
                                                                                      -JimH


I second that motion COMPLETELY. I would even speak well of him, if he would rehab his resume and admit he lied, confabulated and extrapolated about it. The key to future success for him now is admission and redemption, not perpertuation through transparent, slim semantics.

Its a house of cards. The new things he has done, are based on fooling people about his past.
Its a house of cards. All that talk about making yourself a "hard target." Yet, he violated his own prime directive, his motto, by making himself a soft target by building a business on a soft house of flimsy cards.

Hock