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[Hock]

It is always difficult to answer a question about an instructor or course in particular. But, in an overall nutshell, and in a general response to all questions about all people with courses on the marketplace?...So, if so many people are all doing the same good things, the next tie-breaker for me is where do they come from. What have they done? Like me, you, the customer then must decide- is it real, Memorex or just tissue paper?

...There are some people on the market place that have built their ad/marketing campaigns on a thin, tissue paper of lies and exaggerations, things we old-timers know the true, background stories about. How and where they got started. How they came up. I guess I am an old-timer and I know these people and stories-chapter and verse. 

General examples?
There is a USA guy claiming to be trained and teaching the secret Viking fighting arts. Yet, when I was in Sweden recently, the common consensus from martial experts was there is no such system in all of the Nordic areas. USA doesn’t know this. This guy has gone through several fad phases in the last 20 years, Indians, Green Berets, now Vikings.

“Prior criminal investigator”…touts one knife expert….Really? When was this? Where? We know him his whole short, life. I know people who attended grammar school with this kid. When did he squeeze that police career in? Hmmmm?

“Post 911 government, counter-terrorism expert." - sounds like Jack on the tv show 24, huh? Not really-simply just a common, sky marshal.

"Exclusive hand-to hand combat instructor for the US Navy SEALs" (wow that was a lulu)

“Appalachian Mountains Knife Fighting expert” touts another knife guy, who apologizes for telling lies every few years.  Is this the next one? Trusted historians say there is no such thing.

An ex-con who teaches cops how to shoot…then the police freak out later when they discover this truth…

Coke heads teaching the DEA…(wha? How does this happen?)


I could go on and on and on and on and on... and some of what they teach is...generally good stuff, too!


Questions…
These are the questions customers must ask, that people like me are not always the best to answer, (publicly anyway- we sound like sour grapes, jealousy and gossip when we say it, huh?)

But, to me overall quality is not always based on the observation that some of the material was good. Is the instructor half-full (confabulations and exaggerations) or full (lies) of crappolla, too?

How much does this factor weigh in the overall review of a instructor and a course?

Hock

[JimH]

Hock,
I fully agree.
When you attend seminars by some of these people and you hear their line of part truths and mostly BS ,if you have a clue and question them the stories change and you see them for what they are liars.

They spin  crap into Gold and people buy their stories.

If you can spin a good story you can make a fortune,because people are so Gullible.

3 months riding on a plane makes someone an anti terrorist specialist,lol.
As said,if his is the only training you can get then he maybe the greatest thing out there,till you get out there and see other stuff.

A guy in New York is making a fortune with Samurai training.
He attended a class in acting school on theatrical swordsmanship and now calls himself Master whatever and people line up to train with this joker to learn the way of the Samurai and get into samurai shape,lol.

People,please do the research on the claims these people make before you spend your hard earned money.

[kamagong]

I saw the ad for the guy claiming the Appalachian Knife fighting.  I found this very interesting since I am appalachian, grew up and live in the mountains, and have never heard of a knife system to come out of here.  Believe me I would have found it.  Maybe I could develop my own and call it "Hick-Kun-Do" or "Whoop-Jitsu".  All of our students would show up to class wearing bibbed overalls, a John Deere cap, and Wolverine work boots.  We would also require them to dip snuff, and provide their own Ale-8 One bottle to spit in (for those of you all who don't know, Ale-8 One is a soda exclusive only to central Kentucky and is also called Kentucky Swamp water.  Every almost every redneck in the area drinks it and uses the bottle to spit in afterwards).  All Instructors in the system would be required to have at least one tooth knocked out. 

[Milldog1776]

All of our students would show up to class wearing bibbed overalls, a John Deere cap, and Wolverine work boots.  We would also require them to dip snuff, and provide their own Ale-8 One bottle to spit in:D

You mean they don't already? ....I'm very disappointed in you, kama. 

[Hock]

You're speaking of Kevin Martin. His ad is in Tactical Knives magazine so everyone knows it anyway. And I can say that you should not hold the magazine or editors to blame. I think I can and should freely state the following...

For a period of over a year, maybe two... he had completely fabricated an endorsement from me on his webpage. It was a glorious paragraph where I declared him wonderful and he actually claimed I called him "the next Rex Applegate." This quote also indirectly ridiculed Kelly Worden and Keating.

A guy told me at a seminar that he worked out with Kelly Worden and asked me why I didn't think much of kelly. I said, "wha?" He told me of the Martin endorsement. I said, ..."huh?"

The guy proceeded to "remind" me of my Martin endorsement.

"Huh?"

When I got home I looked. Sure enough, there it was on the web. An absolute, thorough lie. I emailed him and told him to remove it. Which he did without a response. What could he say?

I then realized that Kelly and Keating were a bit "cold" toward me (in a very professional way) of late back then and I finally knew why! I contacted them and explained. Kelly had pretty much figured it out already. Kelly told me that Martin has apologized on several knife forums for a variety of fabrications regularly (this part I have no personal evidence of...) 

This is what you are dealing with-with Mr Appalachia, there.

Hock

PS: there is an interesting story on how he got on that "Top Ten Knife-Guy" list of Tact Knives-but without the approval of my insider friends, I will not release it.
 

[fabbe]

There is a USA guy claiming to be trained and teaching the secret Viking fighting arts. Yet, when I was in Sweden recently, the common consensus from martial experts was there is no such system in all of the Nordic areas. USA doesn’t know this. This guy has gone through several fad phases in the last 20 years, Indians, Green Berets, now Vikings.

Regarding the individual who claims to be teaching Viking fighting arts; that guy - and his whole web site - is considered to be a big joke here in Sweden.

On his site you can find some pretty fantastic stuff, for example:

"XXX's search for Warcraft ultimately led him to Scandinavia, where he lived and trained in several remote villages above the Arctic Circle, learning the Old Norse arts of battle. Men such as Sigurd Krystalsson, Thorfinn Sigmundsson, and Kulbay Torsson taught XXX the use of sword, shield, spear, battleaxe, bow, knife, and warhammer.
[...]
Hrafns Vegr - 'The Raven's Way': the fighting methods of the Dark Ages Vikings. Emphasis is on the styles of the Einherjar and the Ulfhednar. The dedication to the old Arts of War is still maintained at a few remote Scandian villages in the barrens and deep forests of the far Northlands.
[...]
The Raven's Way will give you Dark Ages technology for any dark times that may be ahead in your future."


Being a Scandinavian martial artist I don't know if I should laugh or cry when I read this. The stuff on his site sounds more like a screenplay for a "Lord of the Rings" movie than anything connected to martial arts, combat training - or reality!

Someone should tell this confused individual that there are NO authentic Viking combat arts alive today. PERIOD. Sure, there's a kind of "Viking wrestling" (called "Glima"), that is still practiced. But if you're looking for a weapons-based Viking fighting system that teaches warhammer, battle axe, knife etc. - you won't find it! At least not here in Scandinavia...

And no one here has ever heard of his teachers, Mr. Krystalsson, Mr. Sigmundsson, and Mr. Torsson. Maybe that's because they live in a "remote village in the deep forests of the far Northlands above the Arctic Circle"... I don't know. Maybe we'll hear more from them when they decide to update their "Dark Ages technology" and go online some day... 

When I checked out this guy's web site today, I also happened to notice that he's now entered a new phase; he's now teaching a "Roman gladiatorial system of cestus fighting taught at Capua, one of Rome's most famous gladiator schools".

So he seems to be getting off the Viking boat, so to speak. Three guys in a remote village somewhere in the far Northlands above the Arctic Circle will be pissed, for sure...

/Fabian

[kamagong]

  You are right Mill, I have been truly remiss in getting in touch with my hillbilly roots.  VES, bring your Wolverines to Sunday's workout, and some snuff .  We will practice spitting in the guys eye, then sucker punching him  . 

Tac Knives is where I saw the guy's article then went to his web site.  I read a few if the things on there, and things pretty much fell into place.
One of my old instructors is getting really cozy with the Bando organization, and I hate this for him.   

[Hock]

When I checked out this guy's web site today, I also happened to notice that he's now entered a new phase; he's now teaching a "Roman gladiatorial system of cestus fighting taught at Capua, one of Rome's most famous gladiator schools".

...and I believe that special-forces-viking-gladiator would be...Balise Loong

http://www.blayshalla.com/Blaise/loong/loong.htm

For some reason, it fails to mention the US indian warrior phase and then when he was teaching all the Green Berets...and, and...

Most folks know for absolute sure he trained in southern CA. with Dan Inosanto for a period of time.(Note the page contains a photo of he and Dan, not he and not Stutgard Von Helsing-Nordic Warrior Lord.)

He also designs knives? Or an I thinking of someone else with a similar sounding name? Fantasy knives?

Anyway, past that Los Angeles sighting....it is all very mysterious.

The further away your source and stories are, like Vikings, Gladiators, or Ghurkas, or mountain peak monks, the harder it is to check on and disprove.

As Dennis Miller would say-
"Everybodys looking for their niche, babe. What's your niche?"
...and people are out there looking for a cult-like figure to follow and worship.

But Dearest Blaise and Martin, we humbly await your documentation, and then will welcome you with open arms, and I will apologize for all our sins...

Hock

[JimH]

If you throw out enough crap people will listen ,even  groups who should know better and should research the claims before they hire these people get scammed.

Once hired by a credible group then you are free to spread more crap as you have been sort of verified as a true talent.

If the person claims to be one of a few who have trained in an art that NO ONE has ever heard of ,send the RED Flags up or look at your BS meter.

There is a Guy in NJ ,with a National/international organization.
His original style looked a bit Hapkido based and  then it became a Pain compliance art that was sold as the only art police departments should be using.

His original claims were that he was one of only 12 people in the world ever exposed to a secret deadly art,of which he is now the Head/Grandmaster.
He then entered the Government and they spotted his skill level and he instructed the deadliest aspects of the art to US spies from the CIA and other Government agencies,all so secret his affiliation and training can never be told,lol..
(No one I know in any of these agencies ever heard of him,guess they were not high enough up the pole)

He sold these lies to some local NJ law enforcement groups and now he has credibility,he is even on TV ,radio and in print as an expert on crime,self defense and even terrorism.

He then went on to be an expert witness in prosecution of people who instruct Self defense when someone makes a claim of injury.
He was at a Hall of Fame dinner saying"If you do not participate in my course ,I will see you in court".(threats to make sales).

He even bought a huge complex now where he trains groups in self defense all the way to weapons,Body Guards to anti/counter terrorism.
(Full page ads in the martial art mags)

Are that many people this Gullible?

Are that many organizations that unable to verify and vet these people before they hire them?

People screamed about fake masters and instructors in the 70s and 80s,and those guys had small schools,someone should scream about these fakes that gain credibility from a line of crap and become respected experts and make tons of money.

[kayakpirate]

Right on, JimH.
The snake oil is running thick on this one.A very "Count Dante" moment to it.
Did you see the web site of the guy Hock gave the link to? Whats next? Walking on water classes as taught by the ancient Aztec mummies? The picture of the aging mall rats charging accross the feild
made me feel kind of sorry for them...after I stopped laughing...The idea of running around these guys with swords in their hands( didnt mom tell you not to run with scissors?) gives me the freaking willies.
Maybe they're all good guys who just want somethng different than the typical "karate kiddie  care center" has to offer. But DAMN ! Lets not get goofy about it.
As to your N.J. expert, From what I can tell police depts. dont always make the best choices for
training.Once someone gets on the inside the powers that be are too embarrassed to correct the problem and hope it will just go away on its own.In the mean time the snake oil gets thicker.

[Hock]

There is a Guy in NJ ,with a National/international organization.
His original style looked a bit Hapkido based and  then it became a Pain compliance art that was sold as the only art police departments should be using.

...and that I believe would be CDT (we may as well say...)
Tom fell into some money and was able to start a regular, color ad campaign. (The real, secret ingrediant to success and notoriety) As far as that big complex and those bodyguard school color ads? I am not to sure the big advertised shootem' up, ultimate seminar ever actually occured? There was no date listed and I heard they waited until enough people pre-registered (big $$$) before even starting. I heard it is has not happened. I could be wrong! I know many NJ Hapkido people (I am from NJ originally) who liked Tom in the old Hapkido days and they liked what they did. Now? No.

I also interface with all kinds of cops, all over the world, and CDT really isn't a blip on the police radar screen. One example? CDT is never advertsied in ANY police magazine, and I have to get all of them to stay abreast of things. The ad appeal is to martial artists and the MA magazines- in particular-the MA business ones, a place where school owners can be reached and expensive, blood-sucking, franchises can be sought.

In the big picture,
I get all over and talk to hundreds of people a month. Internally, many of these known organizations are at a slow crumble inside. Over-priced, restrictive and some based on riduculous concepts. Some of the big ad names we see in magazines are secretly scrambling to innovate and survive.

"There is a sucker born every minute." These suckers need to be found, sold a franchise and then sucked into bankruptcy, just in time for the next birth.....and so it goes...

Hock

[gumbey]

Sooner or later, it be an ad advocating fighting arts of the Neanderthal/Cro-Magnon caveman and a free wooden club or a prehistoric dagger as an extra bonus gift.

[Nick Hughes]

gumbey, you've hacked my computer and read my business plan haven't you?

[fabbe]

Speaking of background stories: Does anyone here know the story behind "Modern Defendo CQB" and Mr. Bill Wolfe?

The reason I'm asking is because Modern Defendo is pretty "hyped" here in Sweden at the moment. A number of Krav Maga instructors recently decided to (more or less) quit teaching Krav Maga and do Defendo instead, so you hear quite a lot about this system right now - and, consequently, also a lot about "WWII combatives", Fairbairn, Sykes, "military techniques" etc. etc.

On the Modern Defendo web site - http://www.defendo.com - they say that it is "a cutting edge extension of Fairbairn's original system" and that it "reflects an evolution and modernization of the system to address real world violence as it occurs today".

All the B/W video clips showing WWII combat training (from Camp X and Camp B) and all the quotations and name-dropping of combatives dignitaries such Fairbairn, Sykes, Applegate and Biddle sure make you believe that Modern Defendo is pretty much based on WWII combatives. But if you check out their instructional videos (e.g. the C.O.R.E or B.R.I.C.K videos), you won't find very much material that can be traced directly back to what Fairbairn et al. were teaching. Well, at least I can't see the connection… 

Don't get me wrong, I like quite a lot of what I saw on these videos - and Mr. Wolfe seems to be a very skilled and accomplished instructor -  but the system he teaches looks a lot more like Hapkido, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu and kickboxing than anything from Fairnbairn/Applegate/Sykes. If you have a quick look at Mr. Wolfe's bio on the Defendo web site, you'll also notice that he has a long background in some of these arts (e.g. Hapkido and thaiboxing).

So my question is this: Is Modern Defendo really based on Fairbairn's teachings or is the whole "WWII combatives" thing only used as a marketing ploy - in the same way as Mr. Loong uses Vikings and Indians? As I said, I have the highest respect for Mr. Wolfe's skills, but I'm not sure what to think about his marketing strategy. Is it real, Memorex or just tissue paper...?

/Fabian

[JimH]

The key word is MODERN.

What is being hyped as Defendo by Mr Wolfe is Hapkido.

Mr Wolfe's Martial Background is Hapkido.

Modern defendo is Hapkido some basic Boxing and Bill's brother teaches some basic ground fighting.

The funny part is that all the strikes that were the core of attacks in F/S are called dirty trick strikes by Mr Wolfe.
(attacks to throat,neck,eyes

Since the Majority of what was taught By F/S was Jujitsu based some techniques look/are similar,as in the joint locks,but Mr Wolfe took the directness,simplicity and offense out of true Defendo/u and what is shown in his bricks and core are all hapkido based technique.

Not that what he teaches does not or would not work,but what he teaches is his Modern Variation of what he believes Denfendo/u was/is.

Again Great hype and the ability to spin a fraction of truth into a money maker.

If he called it Hapkido how many takers would  he have?
(the same exact stuff can be seen on Combat hapkido material with Pelligrini or Hapkido with Master So,even jujitsu videos with Wally Jay or Miquel Ibarra)