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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • October 22, 2018, 09:36:21 PM
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Author Topic: Some training questions  (Read 3236 times)

whitewolf

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Some training questions
« on: January 10, 2011, 06:39:12 AM »

I was at a training seminar this weekend and the other instructor showed a sanario where a opponent gets up in the face of a victim-starts screaming at them and then while
very close (his hand is behind him-holding a knife)-immediately comes at the victim in a icepick grip with repeated stabs (very quickly) at the head only-
my question is=what is the immediate response to defend  and counter-(besides running as fast as possible out of danger)..in the training the victims hands went up but the knifer
was so fast he must have stabbed 6-8 times at the helmet and hit it each  time.
I understand -not to let them get that close-
WW
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Black Knife

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #1 on: January 10, 2011, 08:29:59 AM »

There is no technique in the world that is going to prevent what happened in that scenario. ACTION IS FASTER THAN REACTION......when you let someone approach you and allow him/her to get that close you are cutting reaction down dramatically.

Never allow someone to approach you with one hand behind their back and then allow them to get up to your face. Big mistake made by that person.

Reminds of one time I was off duty and just got done eating at a restaurant with my family. This guy approaches me with one hand behind his back and is looking at me all crazy. I immediately pulled out my gun and from under my shirt and placed it down on my side. The guy saw it and stopped dead in his tracks....then walked back to the direction he was coming from. Was it over reaction on my part? No.....the location of the restaurant was in a bad area of town where car jackings do occur but I thought it would be okay because it was in the middle of the day.

I never allow somebody approach me with a hand behind their back. My radar kicks in big time....
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Kentbob

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #2 on: January 10, 2011, 09:20:33 AM »

To add to what Black Knife said,

There is no good reason for someone to get in your personal bubble like that, here in the U.S., unless they intend to do you harm.  I do not allow people to get within a half-arm's length of me, and most people don't try, again, unless they mean trouble. 

If you already have your hands up in the surrender/warding position, then you are in a much better position to intercept this ambush attack.  If the hands are down at the sides, the person is probably going to die a messy death.  Even with the hands up, the person is most likely going to get hit.

I question the value of such a scenario, unless it is to teach the student to keep hands up, and keep a potential attacker from getting into contact range.

Kent
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Canuk

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #3 on: January 10, 2011, 01:00:06 PM »

Agree with KB and BK, I would further add that stepping offline as the perp approaches would be advisable. Once again, how would you find yourself in this sitaution? what ques or circumstances were missed?

I think its also safe to make assumptions in this types of situations, such as, if the right hand is behind his back then he HAS a weapon and is likley right handed.
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whitewolf

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2011, 07:13:24 PM »

good responses but -- the instructor said at the start that this sanario was simulated to show that a oppoent can be walking towards you,or is next to you- or you wind up in the wrong area and this guy just comes in your face and he immediately attacks-i thought it was good to show that you do need to be alert and keep out of range-or as stated hands go up in defense position and react. He also said that anything can happen when one lest expects it. We worked on counters when we saw one hand behind the back-where we went to the hand and initiated a attack to face area with other . My question is what are rsponses when it does occur-- over the past few days many attacks have taken place all over the country-we need to add this type training as anything can happen at any time. Police officers are a prime example of what can happen in close quarters to one of them-one minute the PO is taking a report and the next he is overwelmed and fighting for his /her life--As Hock has said- Its not over till its over----
with that in mnid lets train for the worst and learn how to survive-- WW
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Black Knife

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #5 on: January 11, 2011, 12:44:37 AM »

There are differences between a surprise attack and failing to recognize danger. In the situation you gave the defender failed to keep the attacker back or recognize there was a potential threat. The scenario should have been set up where when the student sees a threat he /she should take action by either giving verbal commands to the suspect to stay back or simply have the students take action to defend them.

When someone enters your safety zone it is due to you failing to be aware of your surroundings or you not take immediate action when someone approaches you that you don't know.

Now you ask what some of us would do in this situation......there a few techniques I have but too long to write down and explain but would they have done me any good......probably not. Depending on the attackers skills with the knife and him knowing what vital parts to attack you might be able to survive......but who knows.

I say be aware at all times and learn to read body language......it might save you


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whitewolf

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #6 on: January 11, 2011, 03:14:12 AM »

Black knife- makes good sense- appreciate it-ill discuss what you said with my partner and at next class review body language-being alert to possible danger-watching out for danger zones- etc-
Thats why I like the forum-one can use it as a encyclopedia for tactics and get some good info from it.
WW
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Hock

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #7 on: January 11, 2011, 07:51:12 AM »

whitewolf

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #8 on: January 11, 2011, 06:25:35 PM »

Hock- thanks- WW
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Webby

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #9 on: January 12, 2011, 05:29:35 AM »

People get in your personal space for two main reason's because they want sexual relation's with you or because they want to harm you. You have to have your own set of rules about space and stick to them. If someone end's up with a blade in there head, DON'T WRITE THEM OFF AS DEAD ! Many people have survived deep penetrating knife wounds to the brain. Check out last years news stories on the stabbings in China and South London.

Render First-Aid - Don't touch the knife - Keep Calm  - Call Emergency Services.

Webby..

     
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JimH

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #10 on: January 12, 2011, 10:11:28 AM »

To me it is not a surprise when some one is screaming as they come at me,especially if they are making threatening statements and actions.
If they some how get inside your space and they have their hand behind their back,then you better decide ,or have already decided,to run or move in and take the fight to them.
Verbal people tend to be very animated with the animal ritual of puffing up,arms up and out with chest out,so if they have a hand hidden  it probably is a weapon.
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whitewolf

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Re: Some training questions
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2011, 02:55:38 PM »

Traininjg class today-part of this was putting a knife on mat-opponents on knees facing each other-at signal- both went for knife-attempts to take knife/ strike at opponent and gain control-good training-WW
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