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Author Topic: more on a different style of knife defenses  (Read 5023 times)

whitewolf

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more on a different style of knife defenses
« on: March 27, 2011, 05:24:04 PM »

I found this one -the instuctor appears to have speed-gets the students to be aggressive-he has a couple newer students shwing tactics he teaches and then a
moe seasoned student-  WW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SR3aH5xB5Q&NR=1
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TLE

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #1 on: March 27, 2011, 06:17:15 PM »

As uncomfrotable as I am with anything that has  the term "Ninja" asociated with it, there were some good, basic tactics in the vid.
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whitewolf

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #2 on: March 27, 2011, 07:36:11 PM »

TLE-glad you can get  past the word Ninja-yes I did think there were some good moves shown-as always i attempt to  look at techniques/tactics- not the over all name of the
style-it appears that this guy knows what he is doing-
respectfully, WW
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JimH

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 07:21:38 AM »

Very nice clips.
Nice flow,speed and a more spontaneous look,more realistic looking than rehearsed.
Master Ali Karim has definately taken his skill beyond that of his instructor Master Ron Duncan.
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Dawg

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 08:03:28 AM »

I liked the three-on-one clip; one of the aggressors threw his knife at the defender and he was alert enough to evade the thrown weapon. Good stuff.

I also liked all the movement from the defender in the multiple threat scenario. Evade and close, evade and close, evade, close and finish when the opportunity presented itself.

About as good as you can get in the classroom when you can't unleash debilitating strikes to your opponent.

I was also impressed by the skill level displayed by the white belts and the way the instructor kept encouraging them to continue fighting.

Good clip, WW! ;D
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whitewolf

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 08:21:41 AM »

Dawg- thanks-i try---this particular instructor has some more on you tube-i wont send them but if you  guys want check them out-
What impressed me is his down to earth way of talking about self protection-does not bull shit-that is important when teaching-have to get the audiance to listen and learn -not just hear---see not just look (you like that ?-read it somewhere- ;D)
WW
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Hock

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 09:34:00 AM »

8 out of 10 people cannot move like he moves. They NEVER will. Creating solutions for 20% of the population is not a good overall doctrine for self defense study. This should be advertised as a class for 20%ers, if advertised, rather than a self defense class. If you are teaching and advertising aiki-jitsu (I guess that is? Duncan lineage?) then a student should know that is what they are doing and plan on doing all things aiki jitsu and trying to move as one.

And I counted about "46" times when the knife cut the victim and some were from sheer negligence - a training issue. A lot of the knife disarms. You can grab a wooden knife but a real knife cuts hands and almost always slip free, so many of those knife disarms never would have happened.

But that was fun to watch.
And fighting against the knife always sucks.

Hock
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 01:35:08 PM by Hock »
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Kentbob

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #7 on: March 28, 2011, 09:44:45 AM »

These instructional clips get old really quick to me.  Yeah, they look cool, and sometimes they are entertaining to watch and I pick up some new stuff.  Mostly, WhiteWolf, you seem to just post what catches your eye.  It's really easy for an instructor like this one to stand in front of a group of people, knowing is student is going to swing a certain way, and respond smoothly and efficiently.  I do it all the time, without even trying.

It is a different matter altogether to do the things that are seen in a lot of these videos in a sparring match, or a combat scenario, where a person is actively trying to stab you and slash you multiple time, instead of these one-step deals that people are so fond of.

The one-steps have their place as a training too, but to hold them up as an example of what an instructor  is capable of is a ludicrous idea.  As Hock pointed out, not everyone can move like this man.  A more telling video of what an instructor is capable of is a video showing the students, and not the instructor.  Students sparring with knives, with sticks, or empty hand vs. weapons, that's the real meat and potatoes of who is a talented instructor and who isn't.  And, if the instructor is really good, you can still pick up new techniques from watching the students.  I think you should probably show some more discernment in your picking of videos, WhiteWolf.  Start to ask yourself, what would happen if the instructor in these videos was being blitzed?  When the blitz is on, is the instructor going to respond in the smooth and pretty manner?  Or is it going to get ugly?  These are important questions, and will help separate the wheat from the chaff in the world of martial arts instructors.

Kent
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Keith Miller

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #8 on: March 28, 2011, 12:40:27 PM »

Plus...a ninja with a bright red beard would not be able to hide very well.
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whitewolf

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #9 on: March 28, 2011, 12:58:25 PM »

I responded but it did not get posted so ill try again-Kent- good points,yes I do try to pick vidios that appeal to me-hopefully to pass on better ones tihan just are vidio trash-scondly- I cannot find vidios where the instructor "is blitzed" or fails...dont think i will-the ones i see where the instructor is attacked by a large number  and always wins -i ignore-
the ones i see where he fights off the whole class is not reolistic. In fact i dont think i ever really saw a techniques where it did not work on a vidio.. Interesting concept to show a failure-
Hock-appreciate input- 46 cuts- wow -never even thought to count them-anyone else?
But as you have illustrated before-one should expect to be  cut when being assaulted  with a weapon (knife)-
I do have question though-How many knife instructors have ever reallly been cut in real life? (I have not)-?-looking to see more thoughts on this thread-WW
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Kentbob

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2011, 01:32:49 PM »

I am not necessarily talking about the instructor fighting through thirty people.  I am simply referring to videos that approach a fight more from the perspective of...a fight. 

As Hock points out about a lot of methodologies, they subscribe to the "myth of the duel", to use his words.  The idea that a fight will take place with set distance, in a give-and-take type atmosphere.  This is not the reality of it. 

Just speaking from a solder's perspective, in order to win a fight, at some point I HAVE to charge.  Even an ambush requires a charge at some point.  A successful positional defense must conclude with the soldiers getting out of the foxholes and charging to break the attack definitively.  In a more personal situation, the one that keeps coming to my mind, if I am in a close quarters situation facing an Al Qaeda fighter, I must charge him before he can get his weapon to function or figures out some way of beating me to the punch.  A charge MUST happen at some point for the fight to occur.

In many of these videos there is a single step followed by or in concert with an attack.  What about the attacker who keeps swinging, who doesn't allow his arm to be caught?  The attacker who swings, steps back, and swings five or six or thirty more times?  You can run, but not forever.  Where are the instructors showing such things?  My answer is that very few instructors are making videos like this to be posted, because the armchair martial arts experts of the world would pick them apart for showing so much reality.  However, that does not keep me from wanting to see more realistic demonstration and dissection of a fight, and less one-step techniques.

Kent
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TLE

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2011, 08:04:20 PM »

I thought the video captured  a couple of  fundemntal truths.
Distance- either don't be where you can get cut- or be close enough where you can do real damage. The worst place to live is in the between area where you are too far away to do real damage but he can get to you with a quick move. If you can't get away- move in and shut his switch off and do it right now. The longer it lasts, the worse your chances. ( violence of action)
 Don't back pedal straight backward- you are helpless

I thought ther instructor did a good job of asserting these points. I also liked the way students worked multiples, although I think stacking your opponents and not letting anyone get your back is pretty instinctive.
As far as being able to move like him- I agree not many can- I used too- but I certainly can't anymore- it doesn't lessen his basic strategy that is valid for anybody- you better hurt him badly before he hurts you badly
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whitewolf

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Re: more on a different style of knife defenses
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2011, 08:26:16 PM »

TLE- good thoughts on this-makes sense to me-R/S WW
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