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Author Topic: Collecting Favorite Moves  (Read 3611 times)

JimH

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Collecting Favorite Moves
« on: March 25, 2011, 08:39:34 AM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=diYeU7dMsm8&NR=1
The video is basic jujitsu techniques ,done in a hurried fashion with no finishes to them,to stop the attacker from getting back up.
The seated pistol disarm is kind of crazy as you kick the leg/knee and try to disarm up wards taking the muzzle up your body,some chance there that it won't go off.

To me, an instructor should know his art and be able to do moves  and techniques with his students and be able to answer their questions.
The instructor should know the concepts and principles of what is taught ,so students do not have to rely on Rote techniques,but can go to immediate action and get out of a situation based on how to close the gap,control the attackers space and balance,control the limbs and take care of business.

In the recent Black Belt Magazine,Kelly McCann has an article on having a minimum set of CORE Techniques.He said to have people attack you as realistic as possible,with realistic street attacks and what ever you do immediately in response  to the ten attacks forms the base of your core.Yes it is great to have 200 plus techniques in your arsenal but if you have  a set of immediately doable,reliable techniques work them regularly and they will get you out of complicated situations.
(One of the best singular DVD's for this is Joe Hubbards Street Fighters TOOL Box)

Youtube clips are great,to see what people are doing,but what you see is what they want you to see,hours of footage in many cases ,taken,cut,spliced and put up as THE BEST Looking stuff,let's see the stuff that didn't make the editing from a multi hour seminar.
Let's see an instructor who meets a group and says attack me any way you want and then we will do the seminar.Proof your stuff first then take my money and teach me something that maybe new.Now that on film with these guys would be the best test,in my opinion.

« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 09:17:29 AM by Hock »
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Hock

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Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2011, 09:32:46 AM »

And of course you learn that 200 moves...so that you yourself can pick your own personal 10 best "moves," suited just for you, your shape, your size, strength and age...and based on the high percentage "who, what, where, when how and why" you may need them. (No sense learning jungle fighting methods for the desert)

The instructor has to know them all to facilitate the mixed-persons, mixed-weapons needs of his people.

When you are stuck, as I am often, in teaching large groups, say military or police, in short periods of time, you can only identify the core of the hard core moves and try to teach those. It will always be inadequate. In fact, even teaching long term will always be inadequate to maximize skill. I am always in an adequate stage, in the ever-changing, differing foundation categories. Fitness goes up, kicking goes down. Scenarios go up, power development goes down. This NEVER ends. It is life. It is in all ways of life. You over-play classical piano and you jazz piano goes down.

And by moves? They should actually be concepts instead of memorizing three-step techniques. In the end, about 5 or 6 of my favorite moves may well be the same 5 or 6 of yours - out of "the big ten moves" we pick for ourselves. Maybe.

In simple English for example I am a puncher and pusher for two faves.  Two simple favorite concepts of mine. While it may be risky to fist-punch the head, you can really and quickly batter the body with fists. BUT many people do have not the fist size, body dynamic or power to prioritize punching. "Pushing" as in like Aiki-Jitsu pushing in GENERAL. There would be two favorites of mine. These are NOT two, patterned regimented, three-step, textbook techniques from the "Nagory system." And by the way the concepts of pushing and punching work very well on the ground, too. How handy. General concepts for the chaos of combat.

The so-called "ten moves" should be more conceptual. Here's another - hit the nose. Hit the nose with anything! Forearms, elbows, hands, knees. A chair. See the nose? Bust the nose. This sort of free-thinking concept, rather than Textbook Move #19 and Textbook Move 31. See the nose? Destroy the nose. this jacks up the guys head and messes with his vision.

Your 10 things can actually be broad, yet very simple subjects. When a football running back sees a hole in the defensive line, he doesn't remember the 400 drills he has done since he was a teenager, his body runs through the hole, any hole, any time. Run through the hole is the concept. Run through the hole.

And who knows it might be 12 things, or 8 things.
Hock
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 10:45:08 AM by Hock »
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Dawg

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Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #2 on: March 28, 2011, 05:26:10 AM »

This is what I try to do in my classes. Teach the concept. Some folks have a very difficult time with this; they WANT a step by step process. I try to show them how much that limits their capabilities and options to react to an assailant who isn't reacting to step #1 in "2 Handed Choke Defense #3" as their compliant partner did in class. Sometimes this turns out to be very challenging to me as an instructor.

I'll give a specific example in another post; this one is too long already. Good stuff here!
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 09:18:04 AM by Hock »
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"Whether you're paranoid or not, they're coming for you."  - Dawg

whitewolf

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Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #3 on: March 28, 2011, 07:47:22 AM »

To review a  little-good ideas from the gang on -teach concepts-when teaching a large group don't give out a a million techniques-go with what the group can adjust too.
I joined with another KM instructor who has the actual certification in writing which helps as we move forward in the business community -I can use all the info i can gather from you guys-i will be  looking for more videos to review
« Last Edit: March 28, 2011, 09:20:42 AM by Hock »
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noload

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #4 on: March 28, 2011, 09:56:20 AM »

Targets and tools is one of the things I use. Learn the targets and apply proper tool which can be empty hand or weapon.
I also like to think of stacking techniques to keep things simple.
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whitewolf

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #5 on: March 28, 2011, 12:15:43 PM »

It apears that the ones here who are respondig basically think the same on techiques/tactics and the implentation of them-the thought process we are seeing is a collection of various styles and also what the writer has injected to his particular way of teaching. Glad i can read these thoughts here. WW
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arnold

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2011, 05:03:53 PM »

Dawg, I have a few gems that I'm saving just for you! I'm quite sure you will love them. Maybe not initally, or until the painkillers wear off, but you will love them. Especially when you show them to your students!
Stay safe
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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

Mesmeriser

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #7 on: March 30, 2011, 10:18:35 PM »

isnt that what everybody does though?
You learn or understand by getting to the core of things.
its always about distilling the essence, the bigger scale patterns.
i cant imaigne thinking in terms of set of techniques , or fixed patterns  thats just really really  covoluted unpratical rigid way of organising information.  for anything  not just martial arts. it just isnt practical doing otherwise.



 i cant  imagine thinking linnear like described.
the  application sets i get shown are sometimes downright  ridiculous, slot of good stuff to though thankfully

 but reorganise the expressions of the principles they show through a filter of as simeple as possible, as practical as possible and a lens of i always need to hit not only hit he needs to go down.  it always reorgnises itself in a great way.


principle based thinking allows freedom of expression. it allows the  required resources to find its way out in light of what a specific situation demands.
Any other way of thinking will be trying on somebody elses straightjacket.
how would you sell,  if you were stuck in some rigid sales structure or modell, how would you understand and/or apply different (on the surface) conflicting selling models and schools of toughts?

cool thread,
mes




« Last Edit: March 30, 2011, 10:28:55 PM by Mesmeriser »
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whitewolf

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #8 on: March 30, 2011, 11:41:28 PM »

Mes- glad to read your input here-hope to see more-R/S WW
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Dawg

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #9 on: March 31, 2011, 05:57:58 AM »

Dawg, I have a few gems that I'm saving just for you! I'm quite sure you will love them. Maybe not initally, or until the painkillers wear off, but you will love them. Especially when you show them to your students!
Stay safe

Training that makes me renew my painkiller prescriptions is always good training in my book! I look forward to it. ;D

isnt that what everybody does though?
You learn or understand by getting to the core of things.
its always about distilling the essence, the bigger scale patterns.
i cant imaigne thinking in terms of set of techniques , or fixed patterns  thats just really really  covoluted unpratical rigid way of organising information.  for anything  not just martial arts. it just isnt practical doing otherwise.

From what I've seen from visiting other schools and training in different systems, not everybody does this. I was training at a school with a young black belt and we were working on a particular technique (sorry, I can't remember exactly what it was!), and the young fella commented on how impractical it was and how he'd never use it in a real fight. I said, "Well now, I don't know about that..." and proceeded to show him several different ways the technique could be used against different threats. "Dude, you've got to take these techniques you learn in class and play with them a bit; you might just surprise yourself with what you find out." The instructor had come over to watch us and had a smile on his face the whole time, so I guess I didn't overstep any boundaries.

Everybody's different. Some folks need to be spoonfed everything with a step-by-step approach. Others don't. I think there's a certain level of responsibility that comes with training where you get to the point when you realize your instructor isn't going to be the one fighting for you and you've got to discover YOUR best voodoo to apply to the situation at hand, not your instructor's voodoo. I'm beginning to think some folks just don't want to make that effort or accept that responsibility. Maybe it's a time thing; in time, eventually everybody gets to that point.

You've got to have some tools you can rely on, that you're confident in; your "Go To" top ten, kick-ass techniques that unleashes your mojo to get the job done. Everything else is just gravy.

Keep training, keep learning, keep evolving. My top ten core moves really haven't changed that much over the years; my ability to apply them, however, has improved greatly.

I'm good with that.
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"Whether you're paranoid or not, they're coming for you."  - Dawg

Webby

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #10 on: March 31, 2011, 06:11:32 AM »

I've got to go with Hock on this one. One strike to the nose can has a massive impact on the opponent's ability to fight. It effect's the breathing and the vision. If you can't see and you can't breath properly, you can't fight. Follow it up with a good strike to the shin or stomp to the top of his/her foot and now they can't walk properly as well. To be truly effective combine the two strikes into one powerful attacking move. Bang !
If he's still limping about with a bad leg. Kick the otherone now his got to bad leg's.
Take the wheels off a car and it won't run. For safe training use pad's and quality shin guards, Police issue riot legging's are best, put standard padding on underneath them for enhanced safety. Bash and Dash, Hit and Run create a window of opportunity to escape and then use it. Train safe, Webby..     
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whitewolf

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #11 on: March 31, 2011, 07:19:45 AM »

Web sounds like he  has been there and done that-makes good sense to me-
What Dawg mentions is on the money also-
When taught a technique -try it and mold it to what will actually work for you (or a student) -a 50 year old business man/woman who takes a self defense course will preform a techninque somewhat different than a 25 year old-we have to take into account age, physical well being, background in training-showing a person who has to
protect them selves using a technique that envolves complicated moves (for them) is a disservice to them- and may get them hurt.
Stop them  and shock them -use the strike to nose/throat-stomping/clawing-all good.
Teach to act and not have a melt down-
In class repeat repeat repeat-make it second nature-
R/S WW
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Hock

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #12 on: March 31, 2011, 08:04:46 PM »

More on this subject here -
see 1 April entry
http://www.hockscqc.com/blogs/04-11/index.htm

Hock

TLE

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #13 on: April 01, 2011, 05:25:43 AM »

..."so that you yourself can pick your own personal 10 best "moves," suited just for you, your shape, your size, strength and age...and based on the high percentage "who, what, where, when how and why" you may need them. (No sense learning jungle fighting methods for the desert)"- Hock

IMO the missing link in 90% of self defense instruction- most instruction mirrors the abilties of the instructor- who in the great majority of cases  who usually is strong, fast and fit - years ago there was a little book by Bruce Tegner that broke down the effectiveness of strikes to various targets, taking into account the size of the defender and the attacker. Every instructor out there should read it.
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Webby

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #14 on: April 01, 2011, 06:50:02 AM »

If it's not a life and death situation i.e your dealing with a shop lifter. Knowledge of how to stick a good solid arm-bar or pin on someone is a must. Fancy lock's and are not practical in the street. I perfer a simple and effectice hold. Less hassle from the cop's.

Grab wrist and elbow, lever him down and as long as you keep his arm straight he's not going anywhere. Apply pressure to has shoulder with your knee if he starts to roll.
Keep looking over your shoulder's for a second attacker.

The trick is to go skin on skin, you don't want to hold his jacket, he will slip your grip and then you'll have a fight on your hands. Watch citizens arrest clips on You Tube for poor practice and the occasional good technique.   


     
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whitewolf

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Re: Collecting Favorite Moves
« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2011, 07:52:33 AM »

TLE- i rememebr that instructor- Bruce Tegner -long time ago-it was a small paper back book if i remember correctly.
Web-makes sense about holding down with basic good pain techique till assistance can help
Also i agree that as stated before if the instructor is high,fast,very skilled -the new student cannot feel a  little bit awed over his skill-again we have to take in account the actual students skill, strength ,age level and go from there.
INHO  ww
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