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Author Topic: More two-eye/one-eye "Observations  (Read 1654 times)

5shot

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More two-eye/one-eye "Observations
« on: April 07, 2011, 02:19:52 AM »

Hi, and Happy New Year, or Happy Spring,

Backtracked some hits on my site and came to this "oldish" thread.

As to both eyes open. The science says in a close quarters life threat situation you will open both eyes. You will also suffer tunnel vision. The ciliary muscle in your eye will relax when the adrenaline hits it, and the lens in your eye will flatten. That enhances far vision so you can focus on what is trying to kill you, and you will lose your near vision which is necessary to focus on the sights.

Here's an older but good article Is Front Sight Focus Front sight Folly : http://www.pointshooting.com/1afolly.htm

You don't have to like it, but what is, is what is.

If you practice one eyed shooting for real CQ situations, you are setting yourself up to fail.

You also will not be shooting two handed though most any pic you see on the web and of "combat shooters" and trainers all show two handed shooting with few exceptions. The public and the gun community continues to be brainwashed or brainwash themselves into using methods which will fail them in real CQ life or death situations.

............

Still waiting for proof in the form of pics and/or videos of Sight Shooting being used effectively in CQB.

..............


You will also shoot one handed per the literature and the stats:

Here's a link to 2 "new" articles on that:

Two Hands Good, One Hand Better - Part 1
Two Hands Good, One hand Better - Part 2

http://www.pointshooting.com/1a2hands.htm

http://www.pointshooting.com/1a2handb.htm

................


As to Jim Cirillo, here's part of a prior post to some other thread:

The following is a brief excerpt from the G&W for LE 4/03 article on Jim Cirillo by Rich Grassi. The article title is Jim Cirillo, Gunfighter - Close combat techniques from the stakeout squad! (The article was about Cirillo and a class he was teaching.)

He quoted Cirillo as stating: "When you use the sights, you're target shooting."  That was a surprise to some in the class....

Cirillo then went on to relate how in his first Stake-Out Unit shootout, he'd seen his sights "clear as a bell." The imperfections on his front sight were plainly visible while the suspect blurred in his vision. He reduced them to the colors of their clothing to know when to shoot and when to hold up. He explained that he had time (they'd come in the store earlier and cased the place), he had good lighting (unlike the usual confrontation), he had what he considered to be cover or concealment (a display of peanuts),
and he had distance (more than a conversational range).

"If you got (those elements), you'd be a fool not to use the sights," Jim said.

It's when you don't that you use alternative sighting techniques, like his weapon silhouette and geometric point techniques....

The article touched on his alternative sighting technique, as well as "nose point" shooting.

"...The first of Jim's non-conventional aiming techniques is accomplished by bringing the gun up in front of your face and looking past it at the target. What you see is the weapon's silhouette. As long as (1) the target is (optically) wider than the gun and (2) the gun is aligned with the target, the hit will be made. It's not a real target shooting technique, but it's plenty accurate enough for a fight...."

[[To my way of thinking, to insure that the gun will be aligned with the target, you could put your index finger along its side--so the barrel will be parallel with it--and point at the target.]]

"The geometric point, or "nose point," is a course gun index relying on body positioning. The gun is centered on the body, below the cone of vision, directly under the nose. The nose--being placed between the eyes--is the one part of the body that is pointed at whatever the person is looking at. It's a very fast index and while not always the best choice, it can be the only choice."

[[The pointing method mentioned above, could also help insure gun/target/alignment.]]

Also, in one of the photos in the article, the students are seen practicing weak hand shooting with the gun tilted inboard. In a couple of other pictures where shooting is done right handed, the gun appears to be upright.

...............

Lastly for now or forever, here's a new article for all the big time nationally known folks and their minions, who really are just scaredy cats when it comes to trying anthing innovative which may call into question their dogmatic beliefs.

...............

Are you afraid to try AIMED Point shooting or P&S?

Some folks obviously are, because whenever P&S is brought up, a cacophony is heard from scaredy-cats, or those whose minds are closed to anything they don't already know, or true believer types who believe that the dogma of the past is on a par with the holy grail.

Well boys and girls, scrunch up your courage, turn away from your computer screen and point at a picture, door knob, or any other target that is 8 to 10 feet away. Then bend your head down a bit and look down your arm to see where the end of your index finger is.

If it's not right on or close to center of what you thought you were pointing at, try again.

That's all there is to AIMED Point Shooting or P&S. And it wasn't that scary was it?

When the index finger is placed straight along the side of a gun, it, the sights, and the gun barrel will be in alignment. So, to automatically, fast, and accurately aim your gun at a target, just point at it.

And to assure fast and accurate target engagement for each shot taken, do that for each and every shot.  

Here's what the US Army says about pointing: "Everyone has the ability to point at an object.

"When a soldier points, he instinctively points at the feature on the object on which his eyes are focused. An impulse from the brain causes the arm and hand to stop when the finger reaches the proper position.

"When the eyes are shifted to a new object or feature, the finger, hand, and arm also shift to this point.

"It is this inherent trait that can be used by a soldier to rapidly and accurately engage targets."

This shooting method is not a bar to using the sights if there is time to use them, and the conditions are such that they can be used. Ditto for shooting two handed if the situation allows for that.

P&S has been mentioned or acknowledged in books dated: 1804, 1810, 1816, 1829, 1835, 1870, 1885, 1898, 1900, 1903, 1912, 1915, 1917, 1918, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1925, 1926, 1927, 1929, and 1941 that I have found on the web. I am sure there are many more that have been relegated to the dust bins of history. This is a link to an article that details the chronology with links to the books. http://www.pointshooting.com/1achrono.htm

As to why the method never gained popularity in the US is in my opinion, due to the US military's specific caution against its use with M1911 which was the only standard issue sidearm of US forces from 1912 to 1985. The cautionary language is in the first manual on the 1911 that published in 1912, as well as several others that are dated up to the 1940's. It is quite understandable that after almost thirty years of cautioning against its use, the use of P&S became taboo, and the use of the index finger to pull the trigger, the unquestioned dogma on how to shoot autoloaders and revolvers which are conducive to using the index finger on the trigger.

No matter that Sight Shooting, which is learned via strict and must be marksmanship requirements, is a proven failure in close quarters self defense situations where their is the greatest likely hood of one being shot and or killed. Looks good and is good on the range, but not in combat according the the stats and studies of thousands of combat cases. Astoundingly, there is no proof in the form of pics or videos that Sight shooting has ever been used effectively in a close quarters self defense situation, yet it has been taught for such use for over 100 years.

In Part 2, we'll dispense with the fear of using the middle finger on the trigger, the fear of not using a weak "sissy" range/competition grip in lieu of a strong four fingered P&S grip, and the fear of your index finger being hit by the slide.
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 08:03:05 AM by Hock »
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5shot

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Re: More two-eye/one-eye "Observations
« Reply #1 on: April 07, 2011, 08:39:25 PM »

Thanks Hock for keeping the info which some may find useful.

It is a bit disjointed as it was meant to be a response to an ongoing thread.

When reading it again, the poster (me), comes across as having a poor attitude. I will try to be more polite. I'm 2 thin skinned I guess. I also am very old so change will come slowly if at all. :) 

At one of your upcoming events, you or your partner instructors and some of the attendees may want to try P&S to see if it works, and for fun and discussion and maybe even some laughs.

An airsoft gun is as good as any for trials, and you should probably have some for FOF drills.

With firearms, don't use it if your finger will rest over the ejection port, or be hit by the slide, or if it will extend beyond the muzzle, and don't use it with a 1911 as the 1911 will probably jam due to the faulty design of its slide stop.

The left hand index finger can be used to pull the trigger. I shot one of a relatives autoloader that way, and stiched a nice line stright up the midle of the target as the gun recoiled.

Just use common sense and safe gun handling.

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