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Author Topic: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '  (Read 6040 times)

Webby

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Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« on: April 14, 2011, 12:30:08 AM »

Tom Cribb was born in Bristol in 1781 to a poor family in Bristol. He traveled to London and worked as a bell ringer and dock porter at the age of thirteen. As a teen he joined the King's Navy and served with a good record. He became a coal porter and got the nickname ' The Black Diamond ' at 5ft 10'' he was stocky with powerful hands. He started prize fighting and beat George Maddox in 76 rounds. He won all but one of his fights, beating the former champion in 41 rounds. Next he fought The American champion Molinex breaking the champions jaw. Cribb was British Bare Knuckle Boxing Champion from 1809-1822. He married and had 7 kid's. He retired and became a pub landlord. It's still there at 36 Panton St, London SW1. Pop in for extremely good beer. Unfortunately he's not around the old boy passed away in 1848. Was he ' The Greatest '. I think so, always fighting fair he was King George's favorite fighter serving as an usher at the King's coronation in 1821. Modern fighter's aren't a patch on the old school guy's.           
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whitewolf

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #1 on: April 14, 2011, 10:03:32 AM »

good info on the old time bare fisted fighters - WW
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Canuk

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #2 on: April 14, 2011, 11:07:53 AM »

Gotta say, I think people were tougher "back in the day" problem is everyone thinks that they a from "back in the day"
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whitewolf

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #3 on: April 14, 2011, 12:00:23 PM »

Canuk-yes people today in the martial arts community think they are from back in the day and are very tough-do you think the pro MMA fighters would go into the ring bare fisted?-I dont think so (maybe some but not all)-Do you think TKO sport fighting would take off the gloves- (the ROK army in korea probably would but not our strip mall students.)
I looked up TomCribb-interesting story on him-
And lastly-I have seen a few bare fisted fights in the street between military guys-the fight did not last long- if one connected with a forceful blow to face area-it was over-
I saw one where two guys started a argument-one immediately hit the other staright in the nose area-the guy just caved in and blood poured out of his nose and mouth- he was done.    WW

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Canuk

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #4 on: April 14, 2011, 04:19:46 PM »

My Uncles were INCREDIBLY tough men. Merchant Navy TOUGH TOUGH men. They would only box bare knuckle. Of course they paid for it later in life     
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Cyphre

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2011, 05:47:22 AM »

Bear in mind in that period of pugilism they didn't really go for a knockout blow as we know it today. Many bouts were won by repeated strikes with the knuckles against the eyes. This made them swell up until the opponent was functionally blind and could no longer continue. Fights even went on for days- fight all day then when the sun goes down, resume the following day...

Plus the fact you could use throws and land on your opponent to do as much damage as possible. It was a lot more like an ultra-violent form of the UFC than what we think of as boxing.
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whitewolf

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #6 on: April 18, 2011, 07:04:53 AM »

I dont see any responses from the MMA group concerning taking off the gloves???
and no I dont think i would at my age- ;D WW
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whitewolf

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #7 on: April 18, 2011, 07:48:30 AM »

Cyphre- any vidios i can see some of the bare fisted fights? R/s WW
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Webby

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #8 on: April 18, 2011, 11:35:14 AM »

Cyphre,
          The research I've done on the ' Very Old School ', mentions repeated body shot's. It make sense as a pro-bare knuckle fighter could ill afford a busted hand striking the head. These guy's had to fight often and had surprisingly sophisticated training routines.
Then as now working class guy's fighting to better themselves. Many of our modern phrase's come from this period. Stake money ( the winners money in a bag was nailed to a post ).
Drawing the line ( a line drawn in the dirt to separate the fighters and there camp's ).
Seconds out, etc. Football at the time was mostly an amateur game, if a player scored three goal's, hat's were passed around the crowd collecting coin's. Hence the term ' A hat trick '.

Webby.     
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TLE

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #9 on: April 18, 2011, 04:42:57 PM »

Gloved hands were introduced primarily to protect the hands of the fighters. Most of the blows in bare knuckled fights were short chopping shots because the fighters had to protect their hands. Body shots were used  much more than today. I read an article that stated padded gloves actually lead to more brain injuries than bare knuckle because of the  volume, force and variety of punches a gloved hand allows. There is sort of a parallel here to modern football and the high tech helmets.
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Cyphre

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #10 on: April 18, 2011, 04:55:58 PM »

Cyphre- any vidios i can see some of the bare fisted fights? R/s WW

If you check YouTube there's a few clips of old school boxing - not pugilism as such - showing the likes of Jack Johnson and other guys from the early 20th century.

In the styles of that period you can see something of the earlier era in the greater distance between fighters. Up until the Queensbuy rules you could throw people in the clinch with a variety of methods, so keeping the guy at a distance was key. IMHO you can see a hint of this in UFC matches.

About 150 - 200 years ago pugilism was a full-blooded martial art. There's even some late 1800 photographic studies which were done to show how the body moves. For example, in one of them you see how the guy deflects a punch to face upwards with one hand and puts in a vertical punch deep into the opponents armpit. Not something you'll find in boxing.

The first real emergence of the 'Science' as it was called is usually attributed to Figg (early 1700's). In those days the Masters of Defence put on shows where you fought contests using first backsword, then cudgel then boxing. Something which IMO strengthens the link for fencing being the model for 'scientific boxing'. (It was called 'fencing with fists') And it shows it wasn't just the asians who had an integrated weapon-stick-hand system!

One thing to note, the pictures of Figg and Broughton show them with shaven heads (pretty much standard for modern UK native blokes now!). That was because it was legal to grab the hair and punch the fucker's face in! This happened to the great Professor of Pugilism Daniel Mendoza at the end of his reign
« Last Edit: April 18, 2011, 05:09:13 PM by Cyphre »
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Cyphre

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #11 on: April 18, 2011, 04:59:08 PM »

Cyphre,
          The research I've done on the ' Very Old School ', mentions repeated body shot's. It make sense as a pro-bare knuckle fighter could ill afford a busted hand striking the head. These guy's had to fight often and had surprisingly sophisticated training routines.
Then as now working class guy's fighting to better themselves. Many of our modern phrase's come from this period. Stake money ( the winners money in a bag was nailed to a post ).
Drawing the line ( a line drawn in the dirt to separate the fighters and there camp's ).
Seconds out, etc. Football at the time was mostly an amateur game, if a player scored three goal's, hat's were passed around the crowd collecting coin's. Hence the term ' A hat trick '.

Webby.     

I've spent a number of years researching pugilism and I would agree, body shots were more prevalent as a fight finisher because of the reduced risk to your hands if you drive them into the body full force, and the more penetrating effect of a barefist into the body compared to a padded glove.

However, reading between the lines of the deaths - for instance prompting Broughton's rules - it seems that prolonged body shots were capable of causing the death. Punch someone full force in the liver repeatedly for an hour or two and it's never going to be good news is it...
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Cyphre

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #13 on: April 18, 2011, 05:04:13 PM »

Gloved hands were introduced primarily to protect the hands of the fighters. Most of the blows in bare knuckled fights were short chopping shots because the fighters had to protect their hands. Body shots were used  much more than today. I read an article that stated padded gloves actually lead to more brain injuries than bare knuckle because of the  volume, force and variety of punches a gloved hand allows. There is sort of a parallel here to modern football and the high tech helmets.

I hold to that view to some degree but I believe the prime mover was commerce. Broughton and later masters wanted aristocrats to train with them - and pay big time to do it. You can't have Tarquin going away with half his face smashed in with some bruiser's knuckles so they wore 'mufflers' as they called them to protect the posh faces from injury thus ensuring more custom.

Sure, it will protect the hand as well which is vital but that enables harder blows to the head. Less blood due to gloves also played a big part in boxing becoming 'legit' - it was basically illegal until padded gloved contests became the norm. However, I too believe it has actually made it more dangerous and am in the process of writing an academic article on this very subject.
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Cyphre

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Re: Tom Cribb was he ' The Greatest '
« Reply #14 on: April 18, 2011, 05:07:39 PM »

Ooookay.
Somebody had to eventually so this I guess...

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/c.mansfield2/cribb.htm

http://boxingbiographies.com/bio/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=28&Itemid=27              (scroll down a bit...great drawings)

http://www.lelands.com/Auction/AuctionDetail/35821/February-2007-Lelands-Gaynor/Internet-Only/Memorabilia-Other/Lot178~1819-Tom-Cribbs-Memorial-to-Congress-Antique-Boxing-Book

http://www.shadyoldlady.com/location.php?loc=474    (lost the fight after  32 ROUNDS!)



Thanks, Hock!
I've actually read one analysis which says Molyneaux used solely hammerfists!
And the controversy at the time wasn't that he was black but from the bloody Colonies!!! Good Lord!

Bear in mind rounds weren't timed and ended when someone went down. So you could pack 20 rounds into half an hour. But it's still not gonna be a nice half an hour if it's you in there!
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