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[whitewolf]

Thought i would show this one- note the use of th body as leverage in the takeaway
plus one problem with using the original takeawy method when the attacker is moving in a circular motion- WW

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NKRPDH7lzhc&NR=1

[Karl]

Yes, he showed that to us on our Instructor course.
It gives you more control of the firearm if there are other persons around.

I like him as instructor as he explains what works against Resistance

He asked me if i would take him on.
I said: with a glock 23 and 7 meter distance any time.
He just laughted.

[noload]

I've never liked the standard KM gun grab as it just seemed to be unrealistic and too far out. Not to mention that the guy with the gun is able to move an awful lot.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07jnqD8wvyE&feature=related

What Itay is showing is closer to what I learned, though leaning in could get you off balance (at least to my way of thinking).

I came across this one which is close to one that I use a lot, and would seem to come from Itay gil.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1y7VZ9BQxY

[whitewolf]

Of the vidios shown I think the one by Itay Gil is more effective as he adds the Retzev
continuous motion (strike/Kick)-I also understand he is excellent-He does not teach civilians any more -owns a security school in Israel now. It would be my dream to attend but as a civilian dont think i am eligable-Besides  teaching a technique like this i feel it is important to instill the mental structure of defending into a student.
The civilian defense info being passed on  by Hock fits right in to my learning and teaching. As people on the forum review this thread you will get all kinds of responses.
As practioners of defense we need to try what is shown-see if it works for you in the setting you are in. I.E. -Police officer,Military, private citizen-
If one has not done takeaways under STRESS-then i recommend you find a school that  has that in its  curriculum (if you are interested )-Just my opinions here-WW

[JimH]

I dislike the techniques in the first clip where the victim turns their back to the attacker and or uses the head and shoulders in the technique.
Never give your back,if you can help it and never purposely take yourself out of balance in an attempt to take an opponent off balance who is standing almost straight up and above you.

I also dislike the clip of the parry ,single hand grab to an arm bar and then a wrist lock.
Allows the shooter to fire off numerous rounds ,and to spin into the victim with an elbow to the back of the head.

If you parry the weapon,regrab in a catchers type ,two handed grab,(locking the slide to cause a possible one fire/malfunction,and go right into the wrist lock.
The clip has too much time and extra moves,reduce the movements to the minimum.

Everything works so well when the fingers are off the trigger.

My opinion.

[whitewolf]

Morning JimH-good points- well taken-i agree about giving your back-dangerous move
We do have to remember that speed-counts here-we are attempting to beat the opponents thought process-not the pull of the trigger-if in a training saranio we put our hands up-wait-opponent can execute the trigger pull-lots come into play-i.e.
Fear is a big one-also lack of training in this sticks its ugly head up-also who is with you-guess it comes down to the 5 W,s-and- how far is he from you-is it a robbery-kidnapping-start of a hostage situation-???lots to think about..But-not facing this type sanario leaves many who may face it unprepared. Lastly-I personally think while engaging the weapon you are beating him in the face fast and drivng forward -no matter which technique is being used-JMHO- ww

[JimH]

Speed is important,but to me ,getting out of the line of fire by moving my body and moving the weapon,having control of the weapon is more important than speed.

If we give a bad position ,such as back to the attacker  or bad position of balance,then speed does not mean anything as the attacker will easily negate the technique.

These are techniques that I have trained and or have tried,many with air soft and or other means to see if the opponent can fire and or act/react against you,and this is how and why i give my opinion.

Itay Gil has been doing these techniques for years and he makes them look easy and doable.
I suggest people try them against a resisting attacker and see how well they actually work.

Everyone must find what does and does not work for them,I just give my OPINION and reasons for what I like or dislike and why.

Try everything but make sure you do it against a person with intent and find the reality ,not just some name guy doing it in a static fashion.

[noload]

Everything works so well when the fingers are off the trigger.

Excellent point Jim. I've trained against a real gun (unloaded) and airsoft, and it makes a difference.

One thing that always seems to be missing from these demos is a early to mid phase techniques.

[whitewolf]

Jim and Noload-again i agree-some more thoughts-yes we have to practise and add stress to the training-its good to train under various situations- its also a good idea to move outside the building and move to a alley way or similar area-add as much realism as possible-have other students making noise-horns going off car engines
running-use one hand behind back (it was hurt)-make up drills that are not dojo friendly-yes Itay Gill has been around a long time-we should use training as he shows  and practise over and over-the takeaway may work and it might not-but we should go on the premis that practising may help even the odds. If we are taking close combat training to possibly use then we got to get into that mind set. No ands  ifs or buts-JMHO ww

[whitewolf]

Hey Karl-how about some more from you-was glad to see your post-R/S WW

[whitewolf]

Also-i went back to previous threads about this-dont forget to recheck Hocks May 2011 entry about gun takeways-excellent..... WW

[Kentbob]

Pistol disarms are a dime a dozen.  The nature of the fingers and the hand in a one handed grip on the pistol make taking the pistol away from someone holding it with one hand quite simple.  Pry up, or pry to the left or right.

I believe that one's time could be better served working on pistol disarms against a two handed grab, as this is by far more difficult.  The off hand reinforces any weaknesses that the gun hand would otherwise have.

If one is going to do pistol disarms against a person holding the pistol with one hand, I feel that the time would be better spent doing the disarm 15% of the time, and then working through the various counters to the disarm the rest of the 85% of the time.  Brainstorm the counter.  For example, what if the attacker takes a knee, backs up, or jerks the pistol back?  Try these counters in your disarms, I do not think you will appreciate what happens.

Kent

[whitewolf]

Yes- practising against  two hand grabs should be practised-in additon time should be spent showing the student how to use his body to lunge forward to use he weight and force to ovrcome a possible pull back of the pistol-at the same time repeated strikes to face should be accomplished-as stated there are many variations-what is to be

[whitewolf]

sorry-continued-what is also to be driven into the student is aggression against the opponent, and speed up his reaction time to the initial weapon being  shown, drawn,
or observed inside a piece of clothing.-WW

[ShooterMMA]

It's not about perfect technique (you can create what ewer you want), it's about what will you do, what will be your first reaction (respond)!
And if someone will pull the gun in your head, under this conditions the most instinctive thing is to grab, not to jump around doing some more perfect techniques  

Real life story with gun, it was simple grab (shoot) and simple take away (similar like basic KM tec.).
Go with a nature not with a "my way is better then your"

Some guys on previous videos muzzle them self a lot.
About easy take away of gun, try to take away it from experience shooter! The hand and grip is like a rock!