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W. Hock Hochheim's

           Combat Centric

Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • April 25, 2018, 07:35:11 PM
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Poll

For those who carry a concealed handgun, where is your holster?

Behind Strong Side Hip
- 6 (35.3%)
On Strong Side Hip (i.e. 3:00 or 9:00)
- 3 (17.6%)
Castration err "Appendix" Carry
- 3 (17.6%)
Shoulder Holster
- 1 (5.9%)
Ankle Holster
- 0 (0%)
Off Body (Briefcase, Backpack, etc)
- 0 (0%)
Don't Use A Holster
- 1 (5.9%)
All Sortsa Different Places
- 3 (17.6%)

Total Members Voted: 16


Author Topic: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...  (Read 3201 times)

Trembula

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Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« on: July 08, 2005, 09:52:21 AM »

Most Range Nazis only allow strong side holsters positioned at or behind the hip. Quite a few if not all of the major shooting schools are the same. But we all know there are a lot of other options out there. I am just curious as to what the forum members here prefer...

Dan
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Virgil

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #1 on: July 08, 2005, 07:47:58 PM »

Back when I carried, it varied.  With the Offc. 45 I used a tuckable IWB on the strong side behind the hip. I liked that real well (why did I seel that gun again???). Later I went to a smaller .40 and carried it "appendix" (what did you call it - castration?!) in a "Thunderwear" holster.  I know, poorly named, but a good rig nonetheless.  A bit uncomfortable when seated for long periods, and visiting a urinal was, um, interesting.  But otherwise it disappeared and was supremely comfortable.  I just read a thread on a gun list debating how to use the toilet when carrying, and with this rig it would've been a non-issue.  Whenever I get another carry permit, I would consider this carry position again if the pistol allowed it.
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V.
Resist much. Obey little.

Chuck Burnett

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #2 on: July 08, 2005, 09:06:14 PM »

Strong side hip carry makes the gun easily accessible with the dominant hand and allows one to get the muzzle pointed at the desired target with minimal coverage of the shooter's body or anything else not directly in front of the target.
It is thus the choice of "range nazis" like me when teaching beginners or those who do not have well developed trigger finger/safety operation/decocker habits.

That said, carry how ever you like. Just please don't muzzle me as you draw. :o

In general, what are your carry considerations?
What are your clothing options?
What size gun?
Which is more important, deep concealment or quick access?
Ambidextrous access?
Retention in a hands on situation?
Access from seated or grounded positions?

Does it bother you to have your gun pointed at your own body during carry or drawstroke?
Or, I should say, how confident are you that your trigger finger discipline will be perfect under stress?

Which ever mode of carry  you choose, practice the way you carry!
Don't do all your training from the class or range mandated strong side hip carrry then put your gun in a fanny pack and head out into the world.
 
My daily carry is IWB just behind the hip. I sometimes wear a bellyband with the gun in crossdraw position when I need deep concealment.
Bedside rollout kit is a fanny pack with gun, spare mag, flashlight, and cell phone.

YMMV,
Oberleutnant Chuck ;D
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #3 on: July 08, 2005, 10:13:28 PM »

I was going to say more or less the same...in defense of the range nazis.

Most of the options other than strong side hip your muzzling yourself when you draw.  In a shoulder holster (stoopidest invention ever) you are muzzling everybody behind you and to your left hand side.  An ankle holster?  Usually the place for a back up piece when in mufti, not for primary carry.  In your bag/briefcase/fanny pack, well, that's the first thing the bad guy is going to swipe and there goes your weapon.  No holster...great till you end up in a fight.  I know of one guy in Melbourne who shot one nut off doing that...and it's not secure if you're rolling round with someone or grappling.

If memory serves the FBI spent a lot of time and money years ago working out the securest place to carry a weapon that provided the fastest position to get it into action and came up with....the strong side hip carry.  Imagine that.

I have over the years raced mates of mine who've tried to argue they're faster with shoulder rigs, fanny packs, castration, small of the back etc etc...never been beaten to the draw yet.
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

mercop

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #4 on: July 22, 2005, 07:43:39 AM »

Off duty it is a Colt Series 70 1911 appendix carry.
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gumbey

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2005, 07:14:44 PM »

H&K USP .40=Uncle Mike's Horizontal Shoulder Holster or Blackhawk Urban Carry Fannypack Holster

S&W Model 457 .45=Pager Pal Inside the Pants Holster, Bianchi Inside the Pants Holster (strong-side carry), or Blackhawk Urban Carry Fannypack Holster

PS:Although unrelated, I just bought myself 2 extra high-capacity mags (13 rds.) for my H&K USP. Right now, I am just using the 10-rd. mags. But once the temperature gets colder and I switch to the USP for CCW , I will rotate to high caps. Sorry to bring this up. I just feel happy that I finally get to own 2 more hi-capacity mags than just 1, which came with my pistol when I bought it during the crime bill.
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spanky

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #6 on: August 13, 2005, 12:31:42 PM »

Dan,

All you had to do is call me and I will be happy to discuss this topic at length including my experiences and give you my advice for free.

Hank  ;D
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Hock

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #7 on: August 14, 2005, 07:35:56 AM »

If memory serves the FBI spent a lot of time and money years ago working out the securest place to carry a weapon that provided the fastest position to get it into action and came up with....the strong side hip carry.  Imagine that.

YES!
That is true.
I heard that also from G. Gordon Liddy, an agent at the time.
Liddy also added that part of their training on the range was to first throw their fedora hat at the target and then draw and shoot.

Just one  reason they hung on to the hat policy for so long was to have this trick available.
Hock



Tommy

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #8 on: August 31, 2005, 06:09:41 AM »

COOL thread...

I carry in Appendix position...

Tommy

P.S. Nice to see ya here Merc...:)
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Hock

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #9 on: August 31, 2005, 06:43:55 AM »

My free-thinking friend Ralph Mroz had a good article in the new Combat Handguns magazine which mentioned the belt level, cross draw. And how many advantages to the carry there were. In particluar the left hand could draw the left side pistol also pulling a twist of the wrist, ala Wild Bill Hickock?

As a detective for many years, myself and others in our 14 -man squad usually carried .45s and most of us did so without holsters! We would just stuff the gun in our beltline on the hip. In this manner, I qualified at the police range many times. This was primarily through the 1980s and well...that was just the way in was done in Texas...maybe other states too, I don't know.

I also used holsters too. But not shoulder holsers-to cumbersome for full-timers working some 50 hours-plus a week-(like any good detective should).

In the course of many investigations, I would have to put a ...what do they call them these days... "a person of interest" into the car with me for the trip to the station, or I would arrest serious suspects and for specific reasons I would not cuff them ( I love getting confessions from bad guys while they were NOT under the drapings of being arrested-especially answering those types of questions from their defense attorneys.) Sure its risky, but the job's risky.

Anyway, I would take out the .45 from my right hip and stick it in the pantsline of my left hip, handle out. This way if I scuffled with this guy in`the car (and this has happened) my gun was not near him. 


Other stuff:
The appendix carry is a good name. Years ago it was called the pelvis carry by the old-timers. The big three belt carries common-speak names were:

Pelvis            (more frontal)
Hip               (right on the far edge of the hip)
Small of back (S.O.B.) round back just abit to the more of the center.

But all were thought of as "hip carries" in general. Technically, anal retentive agencies (like Hoover's FBI) demanded that the hip carry be ON THE HIP! 
(Hover was known to fire or transfer agents because he didn't like their tie)

Hock

Trembula

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #10 on: September 13, 2005, 07:05:09 PM »

Ralph's article is a good one. Methinks that most of the percieved disadvantages of the cross-draw holster and retention are premised on one that is NOT concealed. Unlike "strong side" holsters, the cross-draw holster due to its location around 10:00 (for a righty) can be accessed with both hands for draw and retention with relative ease.

In a discussion with Hank last week, he reminded me that the "muzzle flagging" with shoulder and cross draw holsters is a problem of the drawing technique and not of the holster location. John Farnum (and perhaps a few other clear thinkers) teach indexing the muzzle down as it clears leather, then whilst it is pointed at the deck, moving it to the front of the body, then pointing it downrange. WHALA! All of the sudden, no more muzzling yourself or the rest of the range (or at least not more than many folks do trying to reholster into an IWB or high strong side belt holster). Hell, I've seen many a range Nazi poking the muzzle of their cocked and loaded pistola into their love handles and muzzling themselves searching for the mouth of their holster - sometimes with their fingers on the trigger.

Were it not for the pesky problem of all my motor memory for drawing a handgun being strong side hip - and the extremely high liklihood that if I were ever carrying a handgun in the line of duty it would be therabouts as well, I think I would give cross-draw some very serious consideration.

Dan
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #11 on: September 13, 2005, 08:53:50 PM »

There's another method out that I don't see mentioned that I use to carry when I don't want to carry.  I doubt it was round in the old days because kydex really makes it possible.

I use it with my kel-tec and can produce it from under the shirt right at about one second

N
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

Trembula

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #12 on: September 15, 2005, 11:25:16 AM »

Ninor... I like the look of that. Kind of a masculine version of the "Under the Bra" holster that a female acquaintance of mine uses on occasion. And the muzzle is not pointed straight at your neck like on another neck holster I have seen (for the NAA mini-revolver).

Dan
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spanky

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2005, 11:14:23 AM »

Dan everyone that knows you, knows you have never seen a bra up close  ;D

I second the motion, if i didn't carry a gun for a living for over 20 years on  the strongside hip, I would carry 2 guns crossdraw IWB. It affords access to gun in most positions - sitting, standing, kneeling (Dan) etc....
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Trembula

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2005, 12:08:59 PM »

To be honest with you Hank, I haven't seen that one in person either, but I have seen pictures...

Looking back historically, many top gunslingers carried a brace of guns crossdraw. Hickcock being the most famous one but it would not be difficult to put together a list of legendary two gun men who carried one or more guns in a crossdraw holster. In fact, contrary to what most Westerns portray, a crossdraw holster was much more popular for a second gun than the two gun rigs the likes of Roy Rogers and all the other cinema cowboys - which makes common sense as how many of the pistoleeros here can shoot even half as well with their left hand as they can with their right?

Dan
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spanky

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Re: Holster Location for Concealed Carry...
« Reply #15 on: September 19, 2005, 01:01:40 PM »

Dan, I need to show you the book I have of antique western holsters most of the real holsters used from 1865-1900 in the west were pommel holster that attached to the saddle as the guns were large and very heavy, I working rancher/cowboy just couldn't get his work done with a 5lb slab of steel strapped to his leg, especially when the chance of using for defense was remote.
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