General Category > Unarmed Combatives

knife hand

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szorn:

--- Quote from: JimH on June 22, 2012, 05:03:32 PM ---Webby,
if i may disagree that the sole purpose of WWI /WWII combatives and the follow up use of combat judo by the services was to create Fighting spirit.

If Fighting spirit were all that was sought in training then the military would have kept boxing and wrestling as they did in WWI or as the GBJJ/MMA of todays US Army are used.

WWII/FAS was geared toward engaging the enemy and ending the confrontation,stopping them from being able to continue on the field of battle.
Combat judo was also used to engage the attacker close in,hurt them enough to remove them from the fight and move on.

WWII/FAS and Combat Judo have finishes while boxing,wrestling ,GBJJ,MMA do not have finishes.

Fighting spirit may have been a by product but not the initial intent of the course.

NelJohn
As said by Canuk,do not hunt for the throat,take what they give you/what is available to you at a certain place in time during the conflict.

My opinions

--- End quote ---

Boxing and wrestling were part of military training during WWII just as they were for WWI. These things were not only about fighting spirit but physical conditioning and building athletic attributes.

szorn:
I think many times we get too caught up in semantics as well as trying to over-analyze some of the tools and tactics. Personally, I like to focus on proper body mechanics and movement patterns rather than specific strikes. The mechanics and pattern of a knife hand is no different than hammer fist, forearm or an elbow strike. Generally speaking the targets are no different either. Learn the mechanics and movement patterns and let the situation determine which specific tool is used. Don't get too caught up in where these things come from, in most cases they were around long before WWII Combatives. Many people forget that the FAS methods are basics movements extracted from Jujitsu and Kung Fu and without those two arts there would be no FAS.

In regards to effectiveness of the neck strike- hitting the side of the neck between the mandible and the collarbone will a have positive effect regardless of which tool I choose to use. The key is making sure I make clear contact and then continuing to strike until the desired effect is achieved.

Steve

wait 4 me plz:

--- Quote from: Benjamin Liu on July 09, 2012, 02:07:17 PM ---Back when I worked in behavior homes, the hammer fist was the overwhelmingly most popular fist for the residents to use in an attack.

Some of the same residents used the same technique whether armed or unarmed.  A hammer fist becomes the "Psycho Stab" when used with a knife, for example.

IMO it is probably a natural way for humans to hit.

That said, a shuto isn't difficult to do, and IMO is a better strike for the neck.

--- End quote ---

How would they apply the hammerfist? In like a big cycling motion bringing fist to knee?

Reason i ask is lee morrison made a dvd called caveman combatives in which he devised a compressed curriculum to which he taught to a military team that only had 2 days to learn something useful and he adapted it for civilian use. Having only 3 tools in the toolbox. Hammerfist, Seal Blitz & Knee. Hammerfist being the primary tool.

So in your opinion is the hammerfist a worthy tool?

MilMak:
Hi wait 4 me plz.

I've trained with Lee (will do again) and he's a good guy. Hammerfist is one of the core strikes of his Urban Combatives curriculum, taught as delivered to the face via the fence etc (from my experience of it).
Others don't agree with this, here's a link to Neal Martin saying just that:

http://www.combativemind.com/self-protection-hard-skills/4-combatives-strikes-popular-useless-real-fight-video/

I personally would rather palm strike and FOLLOW with hammerfist IF it seemed applicable - hey, it's situational after all ;-)

What do you think?

freeflow:

--- Quote from: MilMak on March 23, 2015, 12:54:40 AM ---Others don't agree with this, here's a link to Neal Martin saying just that:

http://www.combativemind.com/self-protection-hard-skills/4-combatives-strikes-popular-useless-real-fight-video/
--- End quote ---

Lets examine what Neal Martin is saying here.


--- Quote ---The classic knife hand strike
--- End quote ---

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8hLdz8aOjU
Documented on video knocking someone out as a preemptive shot.

Doesn't it make sense that something in every martial art going back to 16th century Germany would at least be effective for some situations?

(I can land a knife hand in sparring by the way, and I'm not exactly a great martial artist)


--- Quote ---Front Hammer-Fist Strike
--- End quote ---

It's good enough for MMA.


--- Quote ---Face Smash
--- End quote ---

https://youtu.be/eICBqtqL7IA?t=25s

Watch what this one clawed fingerjab thrown at low speed does to a guy. How much more force does a face smash have with this same hand formation?




This seems a lot like the argument emanating from some WWII combatives camps to the tune of "I'm not good at this, therefore it sucks and will get you killed".

What if there are simply a bunch of surfaces on your body that you can bang on stuff without hurting yourself, and then a bunch of sensitive body parts to bang them against? What if it doesn't matter how you strike as long as you're banging on the other guy's weak bits with your strong bits?

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