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  • May 23, 2012, 01:51:45 PM
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Author Topic: Bulk to "Core"  (Read 1864 times)

Hock

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Bulk to "Core"
« on: August 09, 2005, 07:57:14 AM »

Just an observation...

I saw today on television, on one of the numerous exercise channels, a 20 year-old, old ESPN weight-lifting, television show. Remember those? The men and women look like balloons in a parade, cartoon characters. They were clad in their striped tights, working out?

Then on another channel? A new program about exercises that stabilize the "core" and do things like push ups with beach balls. The people look, well, normal and like they could reach and actually scratch on itch on their back.

I saw Jose Canseco do an interview and they had clips of him working out. He is a "1980's version" person. Interesting how times have changed. Do you all see as many super-muscle-bound men compared to those old days?

Hock

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2005, 05:40:34 PM »

Only in the magazines that cater to that crap.  I'm so glad my bulk days are behind me.  I feel sooo much better now, and I am in better shape for real life.

Sgt. Fitness
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #2 on: August 10, 2005, 04:21:33 PM »

Aaargghhhhhh,

Muscle-bound?  What's that mean?  That term used to be used incorrectly to define someone who was so big they couldn't scratch behind their ear.  It was a fallacy.

Ever since the seventies the weight lifters knew the benefits of flexibility to go along with their lifting.  Tom Platz, once the proud owner of the biggest legs in the world posed numerous times doing the full splits.  Flex Wheeler, another younger, more recent champion also poses regularly in the full splits.

One can be as big as Schwarzenneger and still flexible...they are not mutually exclusive conditions.

Being that size is a double edged sword...on the down side you need to spend 2 hours a day in the gym, eat copious amounts of food, shoot up (if you want to be mega big) buy new clothes etc..but losing flexibility is not one of the down sides.  I was on the juice in the UK (where it's legal) was at 325 pounds and 6'8 and have photos of me kicking over my head.

I've also done the Pilates core development stuff (back when it was still a well kept secret by dancers) and yoga and there are downsides to that stuff as well...notably time spent training again, pulled muscles and various other injuries.



Ninor
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
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Bri Thai

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #3 on: August 13, 2005, 12:02:34 PM »

Nick, just as a note of caution for when you visit our shores..... it is no longer legal.

 ;)
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tlouis

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #4 on: August 13, 2005, 03:11:50 PM »

I think by the term muscle bound, most people think of dudes who look huge and sculpted but are not athletic. I remember Lee Haney the ex-Mr Olympia saying if he sprint 100 yards he would probably spend 6 weeks rehabbing his hammies. Alot of the big muscle boys are not as strong as their appearance would have you believe. Some are excellent athletes but not at the bloated weights they compete at. But, when your primary goal is size and shape there is a point of negative returns. But thats cool, if you are a bodybuilder. Give me a 190 pound defensive back that squats 500 benches 375, power cleans 275 and runs a 4.5 40 My brother was one. Every ounce of those guys is bad news.
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Sgt. Fitness

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #5 on: August 14, 2005, 05:57:51 AM »

Great point tlouis!  Again the idea of mixed training.  Building a number of fitness dimensions.  Building the kind of fitness that will serve you in the real world.
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manfromyard

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #6 on: August 15, 2005, 09:49:02 AM »

I think by the term muscle bound, most people think of dudes who look huge and sculpted but are not athletic. I remember Lee Haney the ex-Mr Olympia saying if he sprint 100 yards he would probably spend 6 weeks rehabbing his hammies. Alot of the big muscle boys are not as strong as their appearance would have you believe. Some are excellent athletes but not at the bloated weights they compete at. But, when your primary goal is size and shape there is a point of negative returns. But thats cool, if you are a bodybuilder. Give me a 190 pound defensive back that squats 500 benches 375, power cleans 275 and runs a 4.5 40 My brother was one. Every ounce of those guys is bad news.

Muscle-bound is a tem that coaches used back in the 50's before they realized that weight training has its benefits. Without drugs, there is NO way that anyone is going to be like Arnold or Lee Haney without drugs. Lifting weights can only help if you are doing it naturally. Most of the Olympic sprinters are squatting 500 + pounds to help with their explosiveness. The weakness is NOT the muscle or lack of flexibility but the extra weight that is carried. 250 plus pounds on a 5'10" frame is a lot of wiehgt to move. Speed will go down, but power will increase as the weight that is moved becomes larger. A 300 pound fullback that can run a 40 in 8 seconds is not so fast, but much more powerful when he hits you!!

If you ever see the World's strongest man on ESPN, they all do irregular lifts for the most part. They all lift weights and are monstrous men, but the winner the past few years has been a Polish guy named Marius Pudzianowski who is ripped (unlike the other competitors). Less weight to carry, although his absolute strength is not as great. Diet and drugs make the difference.

The difference between now and the 70's? Every athlete uses weight training now. The guys in the NFL have seen the average weight increase evey year. It sure ain't the wheaties. Why are drugs such a major factor in sports? Because they work. The weights didn't hurt David Robinson or Michael Jordan any. Ignoring weights reminds of the TKD' er who thinks he's a great fighter because he does forms all day long. Weights and steroid use have INCREASED since the 80's, at least for the athletes. The reason why you don't see as much is because the general population is now so UNFIT themselves. The average joe is in horrible shape, that's why the athlete is so much of an aberration nowadays. The gap between the athlete and mainstream has widened.

"Bulking" is just carrying excessive bodyfat. People think they're bulked with muscle, but its only fat. I knew one guy that was walking around at 230 at 5'8" thinking he was carrying muscle. When summer came around, he had lst 50 pounds and still had more to go! If you can't see your abs, you're not bulked, just fat. If performance is more important than appearance, that's one thing, but dn't fool yourself into thinking you're Arnold or something...

As for the core training, its total BS. How can anything on that beach ball do anything for your core that power cleans, some resisted ab work, or real exercises cannot? Its a total gimmick. It was used originally to increase the ROM on crunches, hten some bright spark saw he could make some money using it for everything. Boxers and Wrestlers take impacts to their "core" all day long. They're not using stupid balls. Gymnasts have to have the highest strength to weight ratio in any sport. When they work the rings or pommel horse, that requires tremendous abdominal strength. They're not using stupid balls.

Go lift or carry something heavy. The closer the training is to the actvity, the more efficient your training will be. When in real life will you ever do anything with a stupid ball? (Bedroom antics don't count).  ;)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2005, 10:01:23 AM by manfromyard »
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Sgt. Fitness

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #7 on: August 15, 2005, 11:05:11 AM »

manfromyard,

You make some good points.  I especially liked the start of your last paragraph, "Go lift or carry something."  Lifting and carrying something heavy especially odd objects will take care of the "core" just fine.  But I must say there are some valid uses for swissballs.  Now don't get me wrong.  I am a low tech, old school, hardcore cellar dweller.  I don't own one and personelly never will use one for myself because of the gimick factor.  And can't beleive that I am defending them. 

Sgt. Fitness
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Bri Thai

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #8 on: August 15, 2005, 12:17:36 PM »

I think that some of the advantages a Swiss Ball offers involve the way you have to fight to retain balance.  The body is contstantly adjusting itself to stop it falling, and this helps replicate an unpredictable opponent pushing and pulling at you in all directions.

I do have one but, in all honesty, haven't made much use of it recently.  But just because spandex wearing nonsense people use them it DOESN'T make them useless for us.
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manfromyard

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #9 on: August 15, 2005, 02:19:00 PM »

Sorry, just snapped on that one. Yes, the swiss ball has its uses, but some people go too far with it. I've seen pictures of people doing weighted squats on a swiss ball. Extremely dangerous, and people don't seem to reaize it. As you said, mixed training is the key. You have to incorporate multiple elemets.

Its just like diet. Whenever one thing is good, people take it to the extreme. Fats are good? Let's do an all fat diet! What, its protein now? The all protein diet. Mixed and varible training as the sarge said...  8)
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tlouis

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #10 on: August 15, 2005, 08:28:16 PM »

Talking about the worlds strongest man competitors- I remember reading that one of those big boys trained a bit with some UFC heavyweights and submitted a couple of them with the old fashioned leg scissors around the abdomen we used to do as kids. Now that is frightening! Those guys are insanely strong.
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #11 on: August 16, 2005, 01:31:21 AM »

I had a chance to hang out for a day with Mariusz Pudzianowski (The World’s Strongest Man) about a year ago.  He is 6’1” and weighs 294 pounds.  I surprised to find out as the day went on that he has black belts in Judo and Karate and was a champion boxer in Poland.

Ciao

Joe 
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tlouis

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #12 on: August 16, 2005, 09:38:57 AM »

Oh by the way, in a prvious post a member stated that a 300 pound fullback who runs a 8 second 40 will hit wiht more power than a lighter faster back. If that is so why are'nt there any guys like that playing football? Alot of what was said was good but this is riduculous.
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manfromyard

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #13 on: August 20, 2005, 09:41:31 AM »

Because speed is more important than power in a football game. If you can't catch the guy, it doesn't matter how hard you hit. The objective is simply to stop the runner.s progress. Its not necessary to physically destroy him.
Its like boxing (Golden Gloves) in a way, or TKD point fighting. Hitting hard is fine, but you need speed first. Its more effective (sportswise) to take a fast puncher and develop his power, than take a slow, but powerful guy and give him speed. The power counts more in real life, but in a sports context, power doesn't matter as much as speed.

Momentum = mass times velocity
Force = mass times acceleration

Punch in the numbers and see. An additional 50-70 pounds of mass makes for a hell of a lot of power even going at a somewhat smaller speed.

« Last Edit: August 20, 2005, 09:47:46 AM by manfromyard »
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tlouis

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Re: Bulk to "Core"
« Reply #14 on: August 20, 2005, 10:06:37 AM »

The reason you don't see big, strong slow guys is because they are destroyed before they can get their mass in motion. Speed is not essential soley because you can't catch the guy. Wneb a vack goes off tackle, your not worried about catching him. Its powere against power and big strong SLOW guys don't hack it!
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