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Author Topic: One touch Knockouts on TV  (Read 17192 times)

jmech

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One touch Knockouts on TV
« on: August 17, 2005, 08:47:57 PM »

I heard about this on another forum and was wondering if anyone on here has seen it-Apparently the National Geographic Channel on their "Is it real?" show had a segment on Dillman and his one-touch knock outs and found them not to work.  apparently Dillman made several excuses such as the guy's tongue being in the wrong place and the guy possibly had the toe of one foot up and the toe of the other foot down.  I was looking to verify this and just get others' reactions.

For those that have not yet seen this (myself included) it looks like it will be aired again on sunday 8/21 at 6pm.

Joe
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kayakpirate

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2005, 09:09:51 PM »

I saw the show your talking about. Its this kind of shameless self promotion
and fairy tale claims that make  me feel ill.Theres people who follow this nonsense
and because of their own pursuit of power, encourage these medicine shows. Didnt he also claim to knock people out without touchiong them?
I also have seen the one touch knock outs that appear to be quite complicated
and rely on your attacker being both very stupid and not retracting their one and only punch.
I cant recall seeing this work on somebody going "buzzsaw" on the supposed martial arts messiah.
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Trembula

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2005, 05:42:28 AM »

I have seen a few one touch knock-outs that I believed. And to the person getting KO'ed, it did not matter what position they were in because the only place they were going was DOWN.

They happened in full speed, real time, against a resisting opponent and the strike landed right on the pressure point the victor was after. I was a believer in these one shot KO's before I saw them seeing them only convinced me to train harder....

These magical targets and techniques?

Solar Plexus, Liver, floating ribs

Straight Right, Left or Right Hook for the most part. 
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sneaky

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2005, 06:02:07 AM »

Hi All, This stuff is right up there with ice breaks and pine boards baked in the oven etc , could you imagine ? now if you wouldnt mind holding your left big toe for me like so and an arm like this whilst i  dim mak you into the ever after all will be fine ? ! ? too funny , cept for the poor buggers who pay to learn the "secret death touch" one shot knockout ? rabbit punch will do it  ;) to quote Bart Simpson "come on touch of death !!!!!!!!!!!! " , all the best , sneaky .   
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Milldog1776

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2005, 07:13:14 AM »

I had a 1 touch knockout once!

I happened to be holding a 2X2 at the time, but I only had to touch him once.  ;D
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JimH

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #5 on: August 18, 2005, 07:47:02 AM »

I have seen a Knockout from a palm heel strike to the forehead and I have seen knockouts from a Brachial plexus hit and have seen knockouts from jaw strikes.

The target has to be at an exact angle,the strike must be exact and the pressure and direction must be right.

It is possible but I do not think it has been developed to the point of being reliable in actual confrontations.
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tlouis

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #6 on: August 18, 2005, 07:54:15 AM »

I have seen a Knockout from a palm heel strike to the forehead and I have seen knockouts from a Brachial plexus hit and have seen knockouts from jaw strikes.

The target has to be at an exact angle,the strike must be exact and the pressure and direction must be right.

  What was the force of the strike in these knockouts? A shot to the jaw or brachial plexus will knock a lot of people out wiht sufficient force. I wouldn't consider these pressure point type knockouts ala Dillman.
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JimH

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #7 on: August 18, 2005, 12:12:40 PM »

The palm heel to the forehead I watched was done while the person was seated and was delivered from 6-8 inches away,from a standing stricker,the blow was made with an upward strike with contact just above the browline driving the head back.

Many of these pressure point strikes of Dillmans,kyusho fitsu and others,use multiple strikes to a series of pressure point areas.Multiple strikes to varied points on or near a limb fool the body  by causing the body to believe it has been in an accident and a limb has been severly compromised,so blood pressure drops rapidly, to save the core, and the struck person drops.

It is true that the Brachial Plexus stun or strike is not one of the TV or demo  strikes,but it is a one strike knockout that also work do to a drop in Blood pressure.

Strikes to the jaw are part of Dillmans and others areas  to strike.

The vascular system of the neck is easiest to get to and does provide a possible one hit knockout,the other areas are harder and require angles of strike and all that which are not truely doable under pressure or through clothing and are not 100% effective so they are not good strike points.
The jaw is always a good strike area and maybe hit at the correct angle and pressure to cause a knockout.

If attacked I doubt many would be trying to see if they could get the correct series of strikes to drop the attacke,or that many would be crazy enough to try the one strike knockoutr.

My view is simple finish the encounter fast and get out.
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jpmbujutsu

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #8 on: August 18, 2005, 12:48:56 PM »

Well,
Have I got one for you.
Back in 1992 - 1993 I had the opportunity to train with George Dillman.
I went with a friend of mine who trained the instuctor hosting the seminar. Not in Dillmans stuff but Tang soo do. Dillman went around explaining kata's and their true application.
Then we got into the points. One Touch Knockouts..
Dillman went and knocked out 5 or so guys (Who were part of his association)
Then to my surprise my friend said try it on Jim.
(At the time I was training in the boxing gyms in Trenton NJ and Philiadelphia.
 Taking an asswhooping! on a daily basis.)
But never the less I was scared. I just saw this guy knock out several guys effortlessly.
Dillman places my head in just the right angle then with a shoto cracks me in the side of the jaw.
NOTHING HAPPENED.
Then Dillman sets my head again at the proper angle. This time he loads up a little bit more and
NOTHING HAPPENED
Now Dillman sets my head again. This time he winds up. I mean really winds up. His hand was practically in the next room.
 And this time.
IT TINGLED
This guy just got 3 clean stikes to my jaw for free and didn't even knock me backwards.
Probably if I only gave him another dozen or so I would have been knocked out.
I guess the shit can work in a laboratory

.
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Jim McCann
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Bri Thai

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #9 on: August 18, 2005, 01:15:40 PM »

What did he offer in explanation?
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jpmbujutsu

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #10 on: August 19, 2005, 03:52:18 AM »

I beleive he mumbled something to the effect that he really didn't want to hurt me or knock me out
because it might adversely effect me.
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Jim McCann
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JimH

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #11 on: August 19, 2005, 07:57:36 AM »

To me,people who believe that these techniques work allow them to work.

People who have been to these schools or seminars,willingly go down because they do not want to be hit over and over for an instructor or senior to make a point on them.

People who willingly allow themselves to be knocked down or out over and over make it a response  rather than soemthing to be avoided.

They are not developing resitance the more they are struck,to me, they make themselves more suseptible to being knocked down or out.

These are just my opinions from what I have observed.
I do not want to be knocked down or out to sell a product for someone,if I  get knocked out it will be  the Real Deal and it will have been from an error on my part,not for some demo.
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seanross

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #12 on: August 19, 2005, 10:39:33 AM »

What you are saying is that if I were to train with Mr. Dillman for long enough, I would be able to be knocked out with a light touch on my jaw.  Does he also teach blocking punches with your face as an advanced technique?  What about sh*tting my pants when faced with an attacker?  Is that on the 2nd Dan test?

Seriously, as I train longer, I want to be less vulnerable to attacks, not more.  Any training program which increases the trainees vulnerability to certain attacks in the name of high martial skill is to be avoided like the plague.  Any training program which uses psychology to render me more vulnerable is sick.  We use psychology to tell ourselves that we can keep on fighting after getting clobbered, not to tell outselves to pass out.
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jmech

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #13 on: August 21, 2005, 08:33:24 PM »

Funny someone mentioned how one-touch knockouts rank along with ice breaking-if I remeber correctly, Dillman's first TV appearance was on an old TV show called "That's Incredible" breaking Ice Slabs......

Just saw the show, they were also talking about "no touch knockouts".  Dillman and his crew were talking about "Chi Balls" and Chi blasts.  They also had Leon Jay and a few others demonstrating the no touch and one touch KOs.  Dillman gave a spiel about "you can put the biggest toughest guy in the world in front of me and I'll drop him to the floor" and several students talking about how after they've seen it demonstrated so many times they now believe in it.  Then they cut to other segements.  When they came back to the testing portion, they had a sceptic scientist stand there, and Leon Jay set up and fired his chi for about 30 seconds.  The scientist didn't feel a thing.  They then cut to Dillman for an explanation.  Dillman offered 3 reasons: 1) the scientist was a "nonbeliever"; 2) that the person could have had their tongue in the wrong place (he actually prefaced this by saying "I don't know if I should say this on TV"-should have followed that thought there.....); and 3) that the toes can actually work as a breaker, that if you have your right toe up and left toe down when he blasts you, then switch when he blasts you again, and keep switching for each blast, you will negate the effect.

Now this all comes several months after a Fox TV affiliate in Chicago went to a local Dillman affiliate instructor to test the one-touch KO.  After watching the mandatory KO demos, they took the head guy down the street to the local BJJ school to try it, and no one got KO'ed.  The instructor then said that the BJJ guys, being in good athlectic shape, had trained themselves to resist the blast.  He then tryed to KO the small female news reporter.  After the failed KO attempt, he asked the reporter if she felt it, to which she said "yeah, you hit me".

The worst thing about this kind of BS is that this is what people think about when you tell them you train/teach martial arts.  This is why people who really could benifit from good CQC training shy away from it and think its useless.  This is the crap image that we have to literally fight against if we want to introduce people to real MA training.  Can't we get these charletans to leave the no touch KOs to the Star Wars movies, and the real self-defense training to those of us who have some kind of clue about what we are talking about.

Joe
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Hock

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2005, 07:53:06 AM »

There are LOTS of these types of stories.

"Why can't Dillman just walk into the any UFC and tap-touch these insane fighters out in a sweatless victory?!" This question gets asked.

But, on this subject-there is a "story" by the faithful, that the top Gracies hired Dillman. In two long, private lessons the top-name brothers learned of the amazing powers and forever banned Dillman or any Dillman system people to fight in these...

Yeah, that is the story. It has such a charleton-esque feel to it.
But that is the story to the followers so they can keep the faith.
I had not heard of this Chicago episode....

I have endured many police pressure point courses since the 1980s and since it was me and some of my best friend detectives, there was a lot of horse-play and foolishness in some of those sessions, (we have played, no gear, tackle football on weekends so rough-housing was normal.) Tappy-tappy, touchy-touchy never seemed to worry work in the overall.

Any gorilla could smack a guy in the neck and knock him out. I never have considered that strike relagated to a Dillman-like system. But these multi-strike, meridian targets....?

Their true-belivers seem to drop like flies. Hypnotism? Expectations?

I have to tell you that one astute, outside observer/friend of mine saw a long demo once and true-belivers were tapped/knocked out-but the observer noted that the believers were using their hand and arm to break their fall on the way down-not something an unconscious person does...

In the late 80's, I was at a demo where Dillman viciously beat the neck of a young man to make him fall, failure after failure. It got ridiculous and he finally hit the young man so very hard that anyone could have knocked him out. The host, standing beside me, began to curse to me and said, "never again will I have this &%$%* in for a seminar!" The host was afriad he had almost killed the poor kid and that the host would be partly responsible.

Do you believe?
Must run,
Hock


« Last Edit: August 22, 2005, 12:32:49 PM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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BA

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2005, 10:16:56 AM »

  If you go to bullshido.net and go to the video section, you will find the fox news report. It is actually about one of George's students making the same claims as George.
 
 BA
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jmech

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #16 on: October 18, 2005, 08:46:16 PM »

the FOX News Chicago video is also available here:

http://www.wimp.com/knockouts/

Joe
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Wardog

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2005, 11:31:28 AM »

The one-touch knockout is the equivalent of the evangelist knockout. You have to want to fall down basically. I spoke to a neurologist about it and when he was done laughing he basically just shook his head and told me he did not think it was even remotely possible.  Never believed it anyway but figured since I had a medical professional in front of me I'd get his take on it. Plus if it really worked it would not be this ridiculous fringe system. Everybody would be taking it.
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gumbey

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2005, 03:25:19 PM »

It's not just Ryukyu Kempo master George Dillman but also a Russian martial arts master (not to knock the Russian system) named Mikhail Ryabko. He calls it "psychic energy". No matter what style, there is always someone selling or promoting their so called feats of power.
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misshinryu

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2005, 08:13:57 PM »

Not in Dillmans stuff but Tang soo do. Dillman went around explaining kata's and their true application.


This true application of kata stuff gets amussing. It is for folks that do not want to train hard in "block em and klock em" karate. They are always looking for "secrets". The only secret to good kata is train hard, hit em hard.
My sensei speaks of the human body as one preassure point. Hit em hard enough and down they go.
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Mike Steele
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aus-man

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #20 on: December 06, 2005, 11:30:49 PM »

3 weeks ago a couple of arseholes were caught trying to break into my car, i explained the idea of a one touch knockout to one of them by giving him a big lunging left hook to the jaw. 100 kg of me and a nice left hook flying at him was all it needed
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bob77

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2005, 08:52:26 PM »

its this sort of thing that gives karate and pressure points a bad name. to the doubters out there pressure points exist. there is nothing mystical about it, they are just weak parts of the body. for example, the solar plexus, the throat, arteries and veins. they can cause pain, certain ones can cause a knockout and some can cause death. the thing is that you all use pressure points every time you train. the whole touch thing doesnt work its full power and correct technique. every time you aim for the groin, eyes, neck thats what pressure points are. there are other less well known ones but its just a weak point that you hit or press or pull to cause pain or injury. this and the whole mysteries in kata are the same problem. the problem doesnt lie with pressure point or katas, it lies in bad instructors like the one on the video. katas do have different applications from the performance but that is for a few good reasons and none of them has anything at all to do with secrets, mysteries or mumbo jumbo. firstly katas are excercises. the fulfill a number of roles such as fitness, muscle memory and correct technique. when you see someone doing a gedan barai with 2 hands that is for excercise and to get the body moving the right way. the fighting side of kata comes a bit later, the reason that katas are not set out "as is" is because a katas application has to work. what works for me wont necessarily work for you and what works for you will almost certainly not work for me (i am quite small built). katas are interpreted how they work for you, not for your instructor or some japanese guy you've never met. its just that a very large proportion of karate instructors nowadays think that the old ways are best. karate was made to evolve.

sorry for going on a bit but i see in forums a lot of people finding problems in karate that dont exist. the main problem in karate is the instructors, not the system itself.
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ryukyubob

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #22 on: December 23, 2005, 10:24:58 AM »

The Dillman controversy goes back a long time close to 20 years now. Dillman showed up at a summer camp conducted by Seiya Oyata (around 1985, I had the displeasure to watch the whole circus) with several of his students and spent a lot of time filming Oyata demonstrating Ryukyu Kempo entries and use of pressure points to get takedowns. The Oyata style looks very much like Hock's approach, kicks to the low line, hammer fists to the jaw, the lockups after softening them up. The pressure points were shown as a nice if you can get it kind of thing, not the entire focus. Soon after this Dillman began making a splash in Black Belt and other places with the sensationalist approach. He and Oyata soon parted ways. "True" Ryukyu Kempo (if such a thing exists) places a lot of emphasis on full contact sparring, and the Oyata System uses combat scenerios for training from a stance similar to Hock's neutral cop stance. For a slice of Ryukyu Kempo from the Shigeri Nakamuri/Seiya Oyata linage (I don't think you will see a lot of pressure point stuff) see Al Geraldi's and Jim Louge's websites. Abert was a green beret who spent a number of years as a NYC Transit cop and used to conduct some interesting seminars on using handcuff's on pressure points to get the suspects arm into a cuffable position. These guys spent 20 plus years in the system, not a weekend in Kansas.

http://www.ryukyukempogeraldi.org/

http://www.kushu.com/

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tcm_jedi

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2007, 08:08:04 PM »

all I can say on the subject is that there must be some validity to Dillman, if both Waly Jay AND Remy Presas not only traveled with him for over a decade, but formed an alliance with each other AND incorporated the principles of each others systems into their own

Just my two cents...
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tcm_jedi

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2007, 08:12:02 PM »

oh and a side note, that guy on the FOX newscast never was a Dillman affiliate, he merely managed to go to a Dillman seminar and then claim he was trained by George Dillman, which is not an uncommon thing in todays martial arts, that is to attend a seminar, and claim training by a particular individual
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Trainer

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #25 on: June 22, 2007, 08:13:12 PM »

i dont need that, now that I have found the most deadly training there is http://www.topsecrettraining.com/combat.html

I hereby challenge everyone on this forum to a fight, and because im a nice guy, you can all attack me at once
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juszczec

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #26 on: June 23, 2007, 08:25:36 AM »

That Dillman continues to get talked about is amazing and something that can only happen in the MA world.

Imagine if your plumber made the same claims - "I can fix your toilet by tapping it on the side"

Either you'd laugh at him and throw him out or let him try, then laugh at him and throw him out.

You wouldn't suspend common sense.  You sure wouldn't give him piles of money to show you how to do it.  Especially if you had a bunch of other plumbers and folks who design toilets explain why its impossible.

You sure as hell wouldn't stake your life on it.

Pressure points exist.  Most folks had them figured out by the time they were 10.  Dillman capitalizes on the American desire to want results with little to no effort. 

He's a distraction and makes people think there IS a magic bullet.  Takes time away from the honest work that will get results.

Mark

grlaun

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #27 on: June 23, 2007, 08:27:10 AM »

Aus-man got right!
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cgonzales

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #28 on: June 23, 2007, 03:55:22 PM »

i got knoked out once by a 5 ft. 100 lbs. cheerleader for ft. stockton high once. brock my nose and everything. funny story.  by the way im 6 ft. 1 and 220 and pretty funny looking.
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usks1

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Re: One touch Knockouts on TV
« Reply #29 on: June 24, 2007, 01:36:05 PM »

i got knoked out once by a 5 ft. 100 lbs. cheerleader for ft. stockton high once. brock my nose and everything. funny story.  by the way im 6 ft. 1 and 220 and pretty funny looking.

Now tell us how big the door she slammed in your face was....   ;)

« Last Edit: June 24, 2007, 04:24:09 PM by usks1 »
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