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Author Topic: Laser sites for CQB  (Read 2107 times)

seanross

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Laser sites for CQB
« on: August 30, 2005, 11:38:32 AM »

What are people's opinions about laser sites for close quarters battle?  I ask because I am considering purchasing a Glock 30 and get a lasermax internal laser site for it.  I was thinking it would be good for training because I can work on a smooth trigger pull and see if I am inadvertently jerking the gun.  I was also thinking it might be valuable for weird quarters, cramped spaces close quarter stuff.  Don't have to  get the sites up to eye level, fire accurately from weird positions etc.

What do you think?
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Professor

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2005, 05:38:29 PM »

What are people's opinions about laser sites for close quarters battle?  I ask because I am considering purchasing a Glock 30 and get a lasermax internal laser site for it.  I was thinking it would be good for training because I can work on a smooth trigger pull and see if I am inadvertently jerking the gun.  I was also thinking it might be valuable for weird quarters, cramped spaces close quarter stuff.  Don't have to  get the sites up to eye level, fire accurately from weird positions etc.

What do you think?

I don't like them!!!  But I like some other options:

For my pistol at night:

Trijicon self-luminous iron sight:



and a tactical Flashlight:



this is also a great option:



....but around the house I like the flashlight and gun separated



For the AR-15:

the Trijicon TriPower has worked great:



I like the option of the gun mounted light since my hands are full, but a separate flashlight for identification is still important.





.02,

Jeff


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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Nick Hughes

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #2 on: September 02, 2005, 10:41:06 PM »

Bloody hell, I find myself agreeing with the Prof...egads.

I've always thought they were a gimmick and nothing more.  One more fancy thing to go wrong (why do people rely so much on damned technology?)  I've also never liked the idea that, if hunting a bad guy in my back yard at night, he knows where I am when I turn it on, but I don't know where he is.

I do think they have some practical use for SWAT who use the dancing dot to intimidate the bad guy.

Solo mis dos pesos

N
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Professor

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2005, 09:04:40 AM »

Bloody hell, I find myself agreeing with the Prof...egads.


N

Just give me a kiss big boy......     :-*
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

Nick Hughes

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2005, 02:56:32 PM »

Dream on... :)
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

Chuck Burnett

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2005, 11:12:36 PM »

I was thinking it would be good for training because I can work on a smooth trigger pull and see if I am inadvertently jerking the gun. 
The low tech but proven method is to watch your front sight during dry practice. You'll clearly see if you're moving the gun around during the trigger press.
Work on smooth trigger presses with motionless sights and you'll see consistent hits in live fire.
Lots of focused dry practice; a little shooting to verify improvement.

My main issue with the laser is that it conditions you to watch the dot instead of your sights.
YMMV
Chuck
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Nick Hughes

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2005, 01:05:48 PM »

Chuck,

That's a great point about being conditioned to watch the dot and not the sights.

N
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Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

tcavlee

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #7 on: September 05, 2005, 08:53:02 AM »

The guys have a ponit but if you do the research you will find that a laser sight is another tool that you can add to your arsenl that will allow you to make it home to family and friends. I am not an expert but I love to read and research and have found that if you make sure you have the basics down and remember them you will maek it home. Just my two cents!
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Professor

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #8 on: September 05, 2005, 10:04:45 AM »

The guys have a ponit but if you do the research you will find that a laser sight is another tool that you can add to your arsenl that will allow you to make it home to family and friends. I am not an expert but I love to read and research and have found that if you make sure you have the basics down and remember them you will maek it home. Just my two cents!

Your right....it is another tool, but what is it worth on the scale of tools that we have available.   I've experimented with laser sights and found them to more of a hinderance than a help.  YMMV.

Jeff
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  'Advanced' is being able to do the basics, despite what else is happening. 

Our Country won't go on forever, if we stay soft as we are now. There won't be any AMERICA because some foreign soldiery will invade us and take our women and breed a hardier race!"  --- Chesty Puller, USMC

seanross

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #9 on: September 20, 2005, 09:34:00 AM »

As a relatively new shooter, one problem I have is the need to focus on the front sight of my weapon.  Ideally I would like to focus on the target I am shooting at, but that doesn't work except at very close range.  That was what got me thinking about a laser sight and thinking that it would enable me to look at what I am shooting, not at the front sight of my pistol.  One way around this is to keep both eyes open so that I am a little more aware of my surroundings.  This, of course makes me have to see two guns and one target and ignore one gun.  It will require extensive practice to instictively know which gun to ignore no matter which hand I am firing with.  When I focus on the target, I see two guns, but only one target.  Were there a pulsing red or green dot on the target it seems like it would be that much easier to keep focused on who I am fighting rather than the weapon I am fighting with.  It also becomes irrelevant which gun to ignore because you are focused on the target, not the gun.

As a general principle, when I fight unarmed or with knife or stick, my attention is not focused on the tip of my weapon.  I don't stare at the tip of my knife or the end of my stick.  I focus on my opponent and what he is doing and react to it.  I would like gunfighting to be as much like this as possible.

I still haven't made up my mind but I thank you all for your comments.
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Chuck Burnett

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Re: Laser sites for CQB
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2005, 11:58:27 AM »

Seanross,
You are struggling with a couple of the most debated, (and really overthought) issues in the firearms business; sight focus vs threat focus, and two eyed vs. one eyed shooting.

Read the thread on one eye vs two here: http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php?topic=821.0
IMHO thats a great summary of that issue.

As to watching the opponent and not the sight, well, it really depends on the distance and the level of accuracy you need.
Demanding a perfect aligned sight picture and hard sight focus at arm's length is ludicrous; advocating point shooting for 25 yard shots is also silly.

In practice use the sight alignment to build the "muscle memory" of aligning the gun with your eye. As you build this skill you will see that you do not need as much of a sight focus to deliver hits at reasonable fighting distances out to 5-7 yards or so.

Unsighted shooting at extreme close range and indexed or "point" shooting at 3-5 yards is vital part of the skills set.
I just feel that sighted shooting is a core go-to skill, it gives us a visual reference for building point shooting (target focus) accuracy and it is vital for diagnosing trigger control issues. Poor trigger control is the BIG issue in shooting.

Buy your laser if you wish, but if you ignore sighted work you'll end up being a one trick pony.
Sometimes you will need to focus on the sight to guarantee a hit.

Quote
I don't stare at the tip of my knife or the end of my stick.  I focus on my opponent and what he is doing and react to it.  I would like gunfighting to be as much like this as possible.

I would like gunfighting to be like eating macaroni and cheese, I'm naturally skilled at that. ;D

Chuck

(edited for spelingg)
« Last Edit: September 20, 2005, 12:02:13 PM by Chuck Burnett »
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