Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Unsecret Lives of Walter Mitty => Topic started by: Milldog1776 on December 10, 2004, 04:10:36 PM

Title: SCARS? Peterson? Larkin?
Post by: Milldog1776 on December 10, 2004, 04:10:36 PM
Hi everyone,

wondering if anybody knows the real story about the SCARS program by Jerry Peterson? Just saw it on Ebay...and remebered there was a little fued going on years ago about the whole thing between Jerry and someone else. Or am I thinking of something different?

I actually have the old Hostile Control System tapes in my collection from way back when. Got 'em out and took a look. Boy...we've come along way with what's available today!! I look back at how much that cost back then...that was really a lot of money to me. Ahhhh, to be young and irresponsible again...
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: FDVargas0351 on December 10, 2004, 04:47:47 PM
Peterson studied kung fu san soo briefly.  He repackaged it, and sold it as scars.  Peterson trained Lou Hicks, who repackaged it and sold it as SAFTA
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Joe Hubbard on December 10, 2004, 11:11:29 PM
Man you guys are going to open up a real can of worms here.  The last I heard about SCARS was the US Navy was sueing Peterson for his erroneous Navy SEAL claims.  Never heard anymore about it until I saw a Peterson instructor Tim Larkin on the SEAL Wall of Shame for further erroneous claims years back that he in fact was a SEAL.

http://www.themartialist.com/pecom/scars.htm - ( Phil Elmore review)


Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Milldog1776 on December 11, 2004, 12:10:41 AM
Wow...I didn't know that Larkin was affiliated with Peterson. Interesting.

I didn't know all of this. I was just reminiscing.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: btuff on December 11, 2004, 01:51:41 AM
For all the questions you need about SCARS see ... http://combative.www6.50megs.com/scars.htm
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Joe Hubbard on December 11, 2004, 02:14:41 AM
I just read the whole thing.† I told you it was a can of worms!



P.S.† Yes TRS did release the first SCARS tapes.† When they sold so well, Peterson got greedy and threatened TRS with a lawsuit for more royalties.† The head honcho at TRS agreed very quickly to turn over all the rights back to Peterson.† Little did Peterson know that the US Navy had just been on the phone to TRS giving them hell for false claims in their advertising!
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Milldog1776 on December 11, 2004, 04:37:26 AM
O.K. the link worked.

Wow, that's a lot of information!! Eye strain set in...thanks though.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: howe on December 11, 2004, 05:42:15 AM
So what training is good for reality base easy to learn and works in different scenarios? I thought scars was good till i read the website.. But i havent got around to seing the tape yet..
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: crazy jim on December 11, 2004, 07:53:42 AM
I guess I'll weigh in here because I've had some experience with the Scars system. I had been in the traditional martial arts for many years, tae-kwon-do, shotakan, and lastly tang-soo-do. My last training was in tang-soo-do. Having been involved in a few street fights in my younger days, and boxed in several golden glove tournaments, I found the traditional martial arts lacking somewhat in practical application. When I tried to institute some combat scenarios and stress training into the dojo my instructer and I didn't see eye to eye. That difference in philosophies led to me leaving just short of my black belt test. That is when I discovered scars. At that time it was the only reality based training around (or at least I hadn't found any), and I bought into it hook line and sinker. I had several training partners and we trained hard core, with hard contact, I even attended his training center in Phoenix for a seminar. He incorporated a lot of good strikes and target aquisition areas , ie. eyes, carotid/vagus groove, groin etc., and he used many standard throws like the rear leg takedown, underarm. outer wristlock etc.,but my real problem was his technique oriented approach, and alot of eosoteric movements that would be very difficult if not impossible to execute in the chaos of a fight. During this time more and more reality based training systems were emerging, and that's when I found the SFC. Not to be too corney, but thats when my search ended, and my journey began. The huge difference between scars and SFC was the approach, as Hock puts it "fighting first,systems second". SFC emphasises the tools; strikes kicks,and takedowns and employs them in combat scenarios that lets you improvise your own techniques as each chaotic situation dictates.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: rside on February 24, 2005, 09:02:26 PM
Jerry Peterson was my first martial arts instructor.  He was running a Kung Fu San Soo in San Diego in 1992 when I began my training.  His SCARS concept was developed by then,  and he sold the school a few months into my training.  I believe he was making more in private consulting/training.
He has a black belt under Master Bill Hulsey and Master ranking under Jimmy Woo himself, who brought San Soo to the U.S.  He had credentials.  In his SCARS ads, he claims that this system was developed in the jungles of Vietnam (he is a combat vet) and in the SCARS lab.  He learned it in a studio.  SCARS is San Soo taken off the deep end.  
If you want to learn about the real thing, visit Bill Hulsey's site at sansoo.com

Read more here: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=172095&highlight=safta
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: SplCell101 on February 25, 2005, 02:43:13 PM
Yeah Tim Larkin, which everyone on here knows was Petersons student, has his own site its like Targetimpactweapons.com or something like that if anyone wants to check it out and he charges ungodly amounts of money for his tapes and to train with him. He posted comments on his site seriously bashing an excellent system that I crosstrain in (Fight/Haganah www.fight2survive.com) to promote his own. My opinion is that he might have a few good techniques but he's a disgrace to NavalSpecWar and h2h to me and that would inhibit me from learning from him. Just my opinion tho.

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: gumbey on February 25, 2005, 04:35:06 PM
Amen to that! When something is too good to be true, it usually is. Let the buyer beware.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: JimH on February 26, 2005, 09:02:15 AM
A friend attended a Larkin seminar in New York.
The price was a joke and only a handful of people attended.
Larkin was upset at the low numbers and arrived late and left early each day.
The material he is throwing out is repacked SCARS,with all the rolling and the crap.

Larkin is not a disgrace to NavSpecOps he is a liar,plain and simple.
He lied to get into BUDs,as he had ear problems that required operations before he even entered the navy.
This condition ,he knew,would not allow him to pass the dive phase but he lied on his medical and took a spot someone else could have used.
Larkin did not get injured in training,which would have allowed him to return and redo BUDs,he was medically put out of BUDs.
Larkin was not rewarded  for having been a Great performer in BUDs,as all men who attempts BUDs are in the top 10 percent of the Navy,he was dropped like the majority who try.
Larkin hooked a Job in Administration.
His new BIO says he was put in charge of SEALS,LIES,the SEALS do not allow outsiders to tag along and have influence in their training and missions.
(He was a FAILED operator)

Larkins admin position is what got him the in with Peterson,who told Larkin he would make Larkin an instructor if Larkin could get SCARS a  foot in the door at NAV SPEC WARFARE.

Larkin spoke on Petersons behalf and got him to demo his stuff,as many other martial artists have done,this meeting allowed to Peterson to pay and or offer Instructorship in his SCARS.

The SEAL operators who were shown it said it was useless.
To get what was promised those in charge of training allowed SCARS to be done in A BUDS class,it was dropped right after.
It filled the  DEAL requirements,money and instructorship were paid and Peterson began running his ads which caused the Navy to take exception, as they did with Vunaks claims.

The Militaries allow many Instructors to come in and demo their stuff,this keeps the troops aware of what is being shown ,taught and sold in the world.

Again Special Operations, through all the branches, have and work minimum time in H2H,this is a weapon of LAST resort.
Most training in H2H is done in Phase one training,any training in H2H after an operator is qualified is at his choosing on or off base or during their PT sessions if a team member has some knowledge,(some men are picked to attend  varied training to get input on its validity and its usefulness)

What makes claims so rampant?
What constitutes actual training?
I know a guy who wrote a book in which he says he trained Special Forces troops.
When I spoke to him he said,"I had a martial arts school outside of Bragg and some Special Forces guys used to come and train".
Does that make his claim legit?
Should he be able to reconfigure the truth to make himself more marketable?
People read these claims and take it as fact and follow these liars.

Drop the claims,market the stuff and if it is good you will get a following,as Hock and many good guys have.
Use gimmicks, charge big money and show crap and you get no repeat business.(maybe this is why the sky high prices because the product stinks and repeat business does not occur)

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: SplCell101 on February 26, 2005, 10:51:27 PM
Couldn't have said it better myself Jim. I learned the whole story on Larkin about 4 months ago and feel the same way you do.

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: gumbey on February 28, 2005, 04:07:49 PM
I remember Tim Larkin came up with the "TFT" or "Target Force Training" gimmick in his ads. Like I said. Too overhyped to be true.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: JimH on August 28, 2005, 02:12:11 PM
Peterson - his only full Instructor,the man who got him into met the SEALs,Larkin is gone and has his own High priced,SCARs based crap that he sells with all the BS claims of training all the Elite Military and police of the World.

Peterson made claims that were false and he printed them,along with Thank You letters from Seal units for training.

As said,many,many instructors are brought in to demonstarte their stuff and some are asked to stay for a while,this does not mean their stuff is used or taught to the SEAL community but that the instructors want to see it and see if it is usable.

Peterson was also found to be selling a form of Kung fu (San Soo)and he was not the creator of anything,just a salesman.

thanks to larkin SCARS did have a short run in BUDs and was cancelled bcause it did not perform to needs.

Larkin was also called before the SEAL community and Shamed for Misleading and lying to people in the Military and the Public saying he was a SEAL.(A failure and LIAR in BUDS does not a SEAL Make)

Peterson requesting a code of silence for the material he teaches and the high price of the instruction is because he feels that anyone who is still gullible enough to believe in this crap will think he is still teaching this deadly art to only Military and certain Police units world wide and that by allowing certain people to pay and be taught he has some how vetted them as worthy of such skill and his teaching.

From what I have heard and read he has no contracts with any Police or military agency but he eludes to the fact that if he did he could not say anyway,a load of crap.

If SCARS worked, why is the Navy or any other branch not interested?

Why Is Larkin no longer teaching it and creating his own TFT course with his cause and effect line of crap?

Tell your friend save his thousands ,go on line and buy some of the old tapes for a few dollars and see the rolling and spinning and thank you for convincing him not to go and waste his time and money.
(he could not even say it was crap if he did go because he signed the vow of secrecy,lol.)
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Joe Hubbard on August 29, 2005, 08:50:28 AM
This was taken from www.navyseals.com

Can you tell me, if it's not classified info, a little bit about Navy SEAL hand to hand combat? There are many advertisements in Black Belt magazine that claim to be the instructors of the SEALs or the style that the SEALs use, like Col. Jerry Peterson's SCARS, Lew Hick's SAFTA, Richard Burton Jeet Kune Do. Also do they have any opinion about the Ultimate Fighting Championship, Brazilian Jiujitsu, and grappling in general? One contestant in the UFC, John Bess, or Hess, who said he was the co-founder of SAFTA, lost his fight which consisted mostly of punching.

All the claimes in Black Belt Magazine or SOF are semi-true.  Jerry Peterson, Lew Hicks and Richard Burton all had some involvment with SEAL hand to hand combat programs.  East Coast teams used Jeet Kun Do for some number of years in the 80's and 90's.  Peterson modified San Soo Kung Fu into his "Special Combat Aggressive Reactionary System ("SCARS") and sold it the NSW as a complete combat fighting system.  It was a pretty decent program - I participated in the 2nd 30 day intensive instructor course and I can validate that it is a very effective offensive fighting system.  Jerry's problem was his ego and inflexibility.  Also there were people in NSW who thought it should be an internal program and not external.  So hand to hand training at the Schoolhouse level (as opposed to informal) was brought into the Naval Special Warfare Center Advanced Training and is now called the Combat Fighting Course and is taught as part of Close Quarter Battle training.

Now SAFTA was a creation of Lew Hicks.  Lew was Jerry's top SEAL student.  My impression of SAFTA is that it is SCARS with new terminology and marketing - along with a few SEAL specific tricks thrown in.  Whereas Jerry Peterson claimed to have combat experience, he had no special operations experience.  Lew never sold SAFTA to Naval Special Warfare, but did train a number of SEALs on the side "unofficially".  UFC contestant Hess was a student of Lew Hicks whom he partnered with for the purposes of gaining greater exposure for the SAFTA fighting system.

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: fabbe on August 29, 2005, 09:07:53 AM
UFC contestant Hess was a student of Lew Hicks whom he partnered with for the purposes of gaining greater exposure for the SAFTA fighting system

Jon Hess (S.A.F.T.A) vs. Andy Anderson (Tae Kwon Do)... I still remember that fight! I think Hess must have been at least a yard taller than Anderson - and probably half a ton heavier...

That was in the good old days when UFC only had three rules: No biting, no eye-gouging and no groin attacks. If I remember correctly, Mr. Hess managed to break all those rules in that fight (which is pretty impressive considering that the fight only lasted about a minute!)...

A classic in early UFC history!† :)

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Joe Hubbard on August 29, 2005, 09:11:17 AM
Actually Peterson does have a website: www.scars.com

Check out the new "Knights of SCARS" membership which reeks of Masonic hierarchy- are you special enough?

Check it out

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Milldog1776 on August 29, 2005, 10:16:56 AM
Actually Peterson does have a website: www.scars.com

Check out the new "Knights of SCARS" membership which reeks of Masonic hierarchy- are you special enough?

Check it out


The NON - Sponsored Life Membership fee is Twenty Thousand Dollars ($20,000.00). This fee is paid just once up front, assuming you remain a member in good standing. The BASIC yearly dues at this time are Four Thousand Dollars ($4000.00), due the first of every year. However, this does cover all four (4) training events for that year. (Ancillary training the Order elects is not included in the basic dues.) That's only $1,000 per event if you're a member of the Knights of SCARS. That is an outstanding price for training of this caliber and level!

Masons don't screw people like this, Joe.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: JimH on August 29, 2005, 12:20:33 PM
The SEALs training,as I have said before,is not limited, they have the doors open and bring in hundreds of trainers a year to present a product or do a demo,if they like what they see they will bring in SEAL or Spec Ops  instructors to evaluate,test and keep what is useful and dump the rest,most times including the guy who brought it.

Lets face it a whole system is not needed bit if they find one or two things of interest they will train it and evaluate it and maybe bring it into the tool box.

SEALs are not the only ones,these guys make the circuit ,SF,Delta,Rangers,Force Recon on and on,once you have the foot in the door the word spreads if it is worth while.

Once Peterson had his foot in the door he had World wide militaries at his door as well as world wide Police units,but the door closes as fast as it opens and now he sells his videos and maybe has people come to pay big bucks to train with him,but he is out of Military Business.

The people in Black Belt who claim to teach the SEALs and Spec Ops are not lying,if you have a decent skill level and offer to come in and Demo(the sellers call it training the Spec Ops)you get a little thank you letter and you go on to the next unit.

Most times H2H is a unit of Training in the forming phase,like BUDs for SEALs and after that training is catch as Catch can,if lucky Team members know something and the Team gets  training.

Hicks SAFTA was SCARS,he jumped on the band wagon,and as a Real SEAL he was more cedible than Peterson or Larkin and he made some money and becasue he was a Real Seal he has a sellable skill even if SCARS/SAFTA is crap.

Larkins new TFT may have good points,but again look at what consitutues Training the Spec Ops(demoing your skill) he and others use this to make it look like they are world wide Instructors on call,most send letters saying they will come and teach and the units say yes and they get credit and take Headlines like "I train the Spec Ops community of the World",it is all misleading ,liying crap.

Lets remember,Larkin Lied to get a shot at BUDS,He lied that he was a SEAL(now retracted in print) and he lies about how Battle ready his crap is.
He is a Salesman selling  a false story,if you buy it you are buying into a liar.

Hock,for example teaches many classes abroad and many military units either have him come or they attend his seminars,if he was like these Hype salesmen he would say" I train US Spec Ops,I train the USMC,I train the SAS/SBS"
these would be his headlines to catch people rather than having a product which people can relate to.

Hocks products sell,not so for these others.

These Liars and Hype headliners get a person to come once and few come back a second time,some groupies will pay the big bucks becasue they think the lies are based in some truth.

The Product tells the story and most of these guys get washed away when the truth is out about their products,and most of the products are crap and the reviews of their materials online tells you so.

If the product on video is crap the in person material is also crap.

Most of those who pay these big buck fees do so because they write off the training as an expense,they say it is good because they do not want to be seen as having been coned or ripped off,but they know they were.

The Hype is a sales pitch to the gulible.

( a punch is punch a kick is a kick,learn to use them and how to defend against them and you know the SECRETS)

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: seanross on August 30, 2005, 12:07:31 PM
Copied from the Knights of Scars website.  I notice that spelling and grammar are not a valued characteristic of the "Sovereign Chancellor".  Seriously, this "Knights of Scars" is a little scary.  It sounds like a secret society that is some kind of a cross between the Church of Scientology, soldier of fortune and a militia.  They also claim to train in all kinds of stuff not normally necessary for self defence, like rappelling from helocopters, electronic surveillance and skydiving.  Is Gerry Peterson trying to create his own private commando group?  And then making an organization so he can take the title of "Sovereign Chancellor"!  I am surprised this guy can fit in a normal doorway with a head so big. 

1. Repelling, (Stationary repel and Helicopter).
2. Become an Expert in combat pistol.
3. Become an Expert in combat rifle.
4. Become an Expert in combat assault tactics.
5. Electronic security, surveillance and counter surveillance.
6. Land Navigation.
7. Survival training.
8. Cold weather survival.
9. Skydiving.
10. Cold water kayaking (rapids).
11. High performance driving.
12. Diving (ocean).
13. Mental Program.
a. Alfa, (viewing and much more).
b. Theta, (physical control over the autonomic system including pain).
c. Delta, (mental and physical resetting).


Ranking and Leardreship

Knights may achieve rank and voting power through contribution, effort, and advancement in skill and knowledge of which the Order of Knights shall vote to establish members in the following ranks:

1. Gentry
A sponsored Level-2 SCARS Graduate who has paid yearly dues and is still under probation.

2. Knight
Degrees 1s t through 10t h. (1s t -degree can acqui r e authority to Vice Chancellor (with conditions).

3. Master Knight
Certified to teach within the Orders, holds premeditate voting power both in the Regents and Chancery.

4. Board of Regents
A group of Knights elected by their peers to serve for one year. The Board has voting power in specific areas of the Code and shall act as arbitration in disputes of the Code and other duties.

5. Vice Chancellor
Head of a specific Chapter of the Order of the Knights of SCARS.

6. Chancellor
Heads all Chapters within a territory.

7. Chancellorís Chancery
Governing all orders of the Knights of SCARS.

8. High Chancellor
Governs all of the Orders. A lifetime appointment by Sovereign Chancellor until Sovereign leader abdicates or dies.

9. Sovereign Chancellor
Sovereign Leader appointed for Life.

Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: seanross on August 30, 2005, 12:14:24 PM
OK.  I am going to start my own secret society.  We'll call it "Crusaders of the light".  I am proclaiming myself the "Supreme grand ultimate captain crusader commander".  You all can become "Peons of light" for $5.  If you pay me another $10 and kiss my butt, you can become a "Crusader of the light".  I will teach you everything there is to know about everything, because I am just that kind of guy.   :)

You should join my secret society because, unlike my competitors, I don't charge thousands of dollars, I only require your flattery. 
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: tlouis on August 30, 2005, 01:35:37 PM
I'm speechless.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Joe Hubbard on August 30, 2005, 02:20:21 PM
He only neds "50 Stupid People" and he will find success!


Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: tlouis on August 30, 2005, 07:12:09 PM
The first TKD instructor i had basically had the same idea. He was Korean trained in the Moo Do Kwan- tarined S. Korean Marines. The guy was just technically excellent and as tough as nails. I have never seen a fighter move wiht such economy of motion and be able to focus more power in a strike. However, his theory was to get a small number of devoted students and suck them dry. I'm talking about 3-4,000 per year and this was 20 years ago. I bailed  just before testing black because it was about that time he reallly started becoming rediculous. He still has a small dojo and from what i hear still makes" special assessments" on a frequent basis and the students continue to pay. One of his techniues by the way was to exponentially increase fees as you approached you BB.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: JimH on August 31, 2005, 07:15:17 AM
This knights program just shows Peterson has lost what was left of the few marbles he had.and it shows how desperate some people are to want this training and membership.

What will people do with this knights training?
Become contractors or Mercs?
No,as Petersons Knights have no credibility and you would be laughed out of a Hiring Firms office.

Maybe it is his own personal Militia to preserve mankind when all goes haywire and their skills allow them to survive and to crusade for God. 

For about 10,000 dollars you could get all those courses( not including the secrets of SCARS) and be certified through credible organizations.

If you went to the UK for two or three weeks vacation they have course run by former Paras/SAS/SBS that offer most of that training for 2-3,000 pounds.(weapons training is done outside the UK)

These courses are for wanna bees who ssay "I did that training".

The people who do the civilian version of the British Para or SAS course believe they are as qualifieds as the Real men who do this for a living.

Much like the losers who take Tae Bo classes and swear they are not afraid of dark garages as they have Tae Bo training,lol.

Fantasyland people,(losers),and the world is full of them,desk jockeys with money who think an MRE and a hike is a hardship that make them elite soldiers.

A few more dollars than soldier training and you can be a KNIGHT of SCARS,LOL.
Title: Re: SCARS?
Post by: Milldog1776 on August 31, 2005, 07:26:54 AM
The whole "Knights of Scars" thing reads like Spectre from James Bond.

Maybe Peterson is building an evil army of clones to take over a small island, and become the next COBRA Commander?  ;D
Title: Re: SCARS? Peterson? Larkin?
Post by: JimH on January 18, 2011, 07:53:58 AM
I get it now,SCARS has developed an on line course now.

It amazes me to see the guy on there talking about the one day training him giving him the mind set of No Fear and after one day he would not fear 3 men coming at he and his wife.
I find it amazing as I have read SEAL accounts of the course and accounts by Michael Jaco in his book  as one of the first train the trainers in the SEALs and he said it was not until his second 300 hours of training that his mind set and belief in his martial skills and Mental Abilities seemed to kick in.(600 hours versus 10-12 hour 1 day ?)

I still do not understand the denial that SCARS is SAN SOO.
If what had been thought of and taught in Vietnam was so good and deadly,then why get out of the Army and go train in the art of SAN SOO and then the development of SCARS ?

Hey I am not just mentioning things on sites I have read as I have all ,or almost all,the SCARS Videos and materials.
I also have Hicks version of SCARS,SAFTA and I have some of Larkins TFT materials.

When I first viewed SCARS I liked the anatomical response  concept  but when two people are moving at speed anatomical correct strikes are not as possible / Likely as when done in slow to moderate speed.(sort of like the pressure point striking of George Dillman)
Add the influence of drink or drugs to the attacker and Anatomical correct responses go out the window.

I wish the Peterson's luck with their new on line memberships.
The SEAL videos alone will attract many I am sure.