Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Stick and Baton Combatives => Topic started by: Kentbob on September 19, 2007, 08:17:16 PM

Title: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Kentbob on September 19, 2007, 08:17:16 PM
Tonight, on a whim, I decided to have my students engage in some Killshot sparring.  We started off very light, just warming up with regular rattan sticks, hitting and blocking on the four clock angles.  I had them go at about 50% speed.  Then we did some kab-kab for a few minutes, then we got the gear on.

All weapons were padded sticks, or rubber knives.  Our progression looked like so:

Stick vs. Stick
Stick vs. Knife
Knife vs. Empty hand
Stick vs. Empty hand

The final thing was something I just threw together, where I put two sticks and two knives in the middle of the floor, and had the students race from opposite ends of the gym for the weapons.  I feel it helps to build tenacity, and cunning.  First time around, one student grabbed all the weapons, but the second time he didn't get the chance, as my other student rushed in and bowled him over.

I did my best to keep from engaging in any sort of real dueling.  We went to the ground, we grappled, punch, kicked, and one of my students even bit me when she had nothing else left.  I screamed bloody murder, and then congratulated her on her tenacity.  It hurt.  A lot.

Anyhoo, Just thought I'd share this sparring experience with the forum.  My observations are such:

When you are up against someone with a longer weapon, you have to blitz them as best you can.

When up against someone with a shorter weapon, or no weapon, you have to keep them at range as best you can.

Maybe not profound, but tonight's sparring drove the point home for me and my students.


Kent
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Milldog1776 on September 19, 2007, 08:33:16 PM
Sounds like a knockabout of pure fun! ;D
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Hock on September 19, 2007, 08:34:41 PM
For one thing..never stop doing that.
Start the class with it or end the class with it.
But it doesn't get really real until you start with the Killshot rules. Punishing people hit with killshots. Rewarding people getting the killshots.

Hock
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Hock on September 19, 2007, 09:10:46 PM
Hey, this old webpage still comes up but it explains the rules, very eloquently by my best, good buddy, the UK's Mister Joe Hubbard.
(These annual deals were kill fests, and no wonder we were not sued, imprisoned and...and..tortured.)

http://www.p2c2e.freeserve.co.uk/sfcukx/killshot2005.html
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: mleone on September 20, 2007, 07:07:53 AM
We do a drill where, The 2 combatants face each other. Then the 2 combatants close their eyes. When they open their eyes, they will either see ( No Weapon, A knife, 2 Knives, Single Stick, Double Stick, Flexible Weapon,) Then upon opening their eyes they have to dart toward their weapons (if any). Then go for it, Including Killshot rules.
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Dawg on September 20, 2007, 12:03:24 PM
Great stuff, fellas! I am soooo jealous! Someday, I'll have enough people in my class to do this stuff. For now, I'll just have to be satisfied with what I've got. No offense meant to my training partners, but you can only do so much with four people (and my limited imagination). My beginner's class fluctuates from four to eight folks (sometimes less!), but you have to start somewhere, right? Great posts! I've got to get to another seminar, soon! I've got some other irons in the fire; maybe they'll result in some more folks getting fired-up about this kind of stuff? Just gotta keep pluggin' away at it, I guess. Stay safe.

V/R,
Dawg
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: loyalonehk on September 20, 2007, 02:08:32 PM
Great stuff, fellas! I am soooo jealous! Someday, I'll have enough people in my class to do this stuff. For now, I'll just have to be satisfied with what I've got. No offense meant to my training partners, but you can only do so much with four people (and my limited imagination). My beginner's class fluctuates from four to eight folks (sometimes less!), but you have to start somewhere, right? Great posts! I've got to get to another seminar, soon! I've got some other irons in the fire; maybe they'll result in some more folks getting fired-up about this kind of stuff? Just gotta keep pluggin' away at it, I guess. Stay safe.

V/R,
Dawg

Your 4-8 students should feel privilaged to have such devoted attention during training.  It's all too often when the class sizes grow beyond what the teacher can keep a quality cap on. 

I prefer not to teach more than a dirty dozen per a qualified  instructor at any time. 

Keep up the good work Dawg ;) 8) 

"Quality not quantity...
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Kentbob on September 20, 2007, 02:15:05 PM
Great stuff, fellas! I am soooo jealous! Someday, I'll have enough people in my class to do this stuff. For now, I'll just have to be satisfied with what I've got. No offense meant to my training partners, but you can only do so much with four people (and my limited imagination). My beginner's class fluctuates from four to eight folks (sometimes less!), but you have to start somewhere, right? Great posts! I've got to get to another seminar, soon! I've got some other irons in the fire; maybe they'll result in some more folks getting fired-up about this kind of stuff? Just gotta keep pluggin' away at it, I guess. Stay safe.

V/R,
Dawg


Hey, 4-8 people is plenty.  I only have 2 fulltime students at the moment, and we had a blast.  Good training, and good experience for everyone.  Give it a try.


Kent
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: mleone on September 20, 2007, 02:26:18 PM
I nicknamed my Drill the Conan Drill, If you remember in the movie thew through two men in a pit. Then through in weapons..

Its much like the days of the gladiators LOL

Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Kentbob on September 20, 2007, 02:35:36 PM
I nicknamed my Drill the Conan Drill, If you remember in the movie thew through two men in a pit. Then through in weapons..

Its much like the days of the gladiators LOL



The Conan drill, I like that.  I'm going to use that.


Kent
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: mleone on September 20, 2007, 02:54:58 PM
No you cant Its Trade Marked lol

Conan Drill TM

Yeah its fun...
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Nick Hughes on September 20, 2007, 03:01:51 PM
I have some you can use Kentbob...

I have one where we drive at you with silly Italian putt putt motorbikes and throw rat dogs on you.  While your fighting them we tear your ear off then put a turban on you.  We call it the "Arnold Drill"

The other one we sit around seeing how fast we can grow beards and we call that the "Professor drill"

Finally, we have running under the short bus while standing erect and not banging your head which is called the "Keith Miller drill"

Yer Uncle Nicky
"capable of getting almost any thread moved to Arnold's bus stop :)"
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: mleone on September 20, 2007, 03:03:59 PM
Hey I used to drive one of those put puts lol

Its all fun Nicky..
With out you the Bus wouldnt have such a Kick Ass Bus driver.
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Dawg on September 21, 2007, 08:05:43 AM
I appreciate the encouraging words. I'm also very grateful for the students and the training partners that I have and we always have a blast training! It's just difficult for me to explain and then demonstrate how to use their skills in multiple opponent scenarios and some of the great drills posted on this forum. I had such a great (although painful!) time at the "Unarmed Against The Knife" seminar at Dallas, that I want to do things like the Obstacle Course or the Royal Rumble for my students, also. Great stuff!
I thought the "Arnold Drill" involved lightning grappling? Isn't that part of the Level 11 Unarmed Combatives Module? I've been working on my "Professor Drill". People keep asking me how long I'm going to let my beard get. I'm sure after the next seminar my nickname will be changed to "Patches" after Arnold or Rawhide gets a hold of me! What can I say? I'm just a glutton for punishment!

V/R,
Dawg
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: arnold on September 21, 2007, 10:08:56 AM
I have combined it all into one complete course, soon to be authorized by Hock. It will be the Italian Short Bus Lightning Drill.
Extra modules will include ratdog attacks, Manatee avoidance, Micro Brew selection, and all of the other stuff that I deem important
The Professor has told me that Hock may give use total freedom to do what is necessary to make this "Special Short Bus Edition" a best seller. Shouldn't be a problem. We will just add it to their dues!
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Nick Hughes on September 21, 2007, 12:11:51 PM
I'm just laughing the Miller hasn't been on here to figure out the dig at him and his (lack of) height...show's how carefully he reads this stuff.

Yer Uncle Nicky
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Milldog1776 on September 21, 2007, 01:50:23 PM
I'm just laughing the Miller hasn't been on here to figure out the dig at him and his (lack of) height...show's how carefully he reads this stuff.

Yer Uncle Nicky

Laugh it up Big'n.

I am quite at ease with my height knowing that you will never be able to sleep comfortably in a normal bed, own a shirt with less fabric than a shower curtain, or wear a pair of boots with less rubber than a Duece and 1/2 tire. ;D
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Nick Hughes on September 21, 2007, 02:13:18 PM
Yes, but my size fifteen boots mean I can sidekick four people at once...

A shirt with as much material as a shower curtain means I'm never having to wait for other dirty laundry when I need to wash just a shirt.  One on its own will fill up the machine...

Who sleeps in a bed???  They're for soft bastids...use the floor.

Yer Uncle Nicky
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: Milldog1776 on September 21, 2007, 02:36:33 PM
Just remember, my very large Aussie mate, that dynamite comes in small packages. ;D

Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: whitewolf on September 23, 2007, 10:25:52 AM
All-the drills mentioned are great-I gave some H2H classes to the AROTC in Clarkville Tn a  couple years ago-I had them sit in a big  circle and i did the same thing-i put a rubber knife in the middle of the floor and then pointed to  two students-when i  said  GO they had to  get up and get to the middle =pick uo the weapon and attack. I would pick the smallest female against the biggest male-Most of the time the young lady  held her own or tore him up-also a lot of the students  just tackeled the opponent and wrestled  him and did not even  go for the knife-it really  made them  think a  lot.Many of These young students are probably in  Iraq now-i hope what we worked on helped them-when i  go back  to the states in Nov I am going to see if i  can  give the class again. whitewolf in kuwait
Title: Re: Weapon and Killshot sparring
Post by: kamagong on September 26, 2007, 09:01:35 AM
Hey guys!!  Just did some killshot sparring last night in class!!  I sparred with a fairly new student and his response was, "Man!! Those shots come in fast with the stick!!"  We are going to do mixed weapons sparring soon.  Loved the drills!!!
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