Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Gun Fighting => Topic started by: Hock on September 02, 2010, 08:09:09 AM

Title: "Spread out boys!"
Post by: Hock on September 02, 2010, 08:09:09 AM

Look at this training video before it becomes sealed for non-police.


SOMEBODY FINALLY is pushing the "spread out" method of group movement instead of these asinine diamond patterns and tight, toy-soldier-marching group moves that knuckleheads developed after Columbine.

FINALLY! Needless to say I have been preaching this for over a decade now. As some of friends. See below article.

THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!

        Read an old piece by my friend
Title: Re: "Spread out boys!"
Post by: JimH on September 02, 2010, 11:37:37 AM
In the military it was always stressed to "SPREAD OUT".

Police Officers USED TO walk a beat ALONE,a whistle for help if needed.

Then came Safety in Numbers,as the Life Guard article shows.
Waiting for help took too long so then patrols in two's and now Van fulls of officers are the norm.

SGM Lamb is bringing back common sense tactics that had been around for ages,now it is like a "New" Idea.

The thing is as a group huddled together it allowed the scared to get swept along with the brave,now by spreading out the scared have no where to hide or a group to gets guts from.
Title: Re: "Spread out boys!"
Post by: Hock on September 13, 2010, 09:52:20 AM
    "In our summer training on active-shooter response, we tried something with amazing results.
    In a scenario where a suspect moved and shot inside a building, as a real offender would when hunting for victims, we had a 2-officer team enter and about 15 seconds later, a second team go in. Each team would split up, so 4 officers total were moving independently rather than maintaining any kind of team cohesion.
    Several times the first officers would get the suspect cornered from different angles and killed before the other 2 could even get in. We then had the suspect start running from the officers when he saw them. With 4 officers coming from different directions, the suspect didn't have a chance and the incident was over in seconds compared to minutes when the teams stayed together.
    Having multiple officers splitting in different directions was by far the most effective way to stop the active shooter. The officer playing the suspect role usually would engage the first officer he came in contact with. This effectively stopped the suspect from seeking out victims because he was engaged with the officer. Usually within seconds a second officer would arrive and the suspect would be taken out. The suspect was so focused on the first officer, he wouldn't see the second and was completely surprised.
    One question that's asked when we have officers go in different directions is what about cross-ire between officers if they come in contact with the suspect. From what I've seen, when you have a contact team or even just 2 officers moving together, one will almost always get out in front of the other. They when they make contact with the suspect and start to engage him, almost always the officer in the rear shoots at the suspect even though his partner is a few feet in front of him--easily shooting the partner in the back. During our scenarios where officers split we never ran into a crossfire situation. Not saying it isn't possible but it seems the risk is much greater when staying together."

                                                 Inv. Robert Duncan, active-shooter instructor
                                                 Waterloo (IA) PD


Last summer, last summer, last summer. Last Summer! I will bite my tongue once again. I have been doing this "spread-out" with simulated ammo and interactive shoot-outs since the late 1990s. You can just ask Ron Bocsh of the SEALE Police Academy as he and I have argued with many a tactical / SWAT officer over this very topic. Preach it week after week for years after years.

I guess I should be relieved. But it is really disgusting how long some things take to shake loose. Disgusting.

             In the military, stay a machine gun burst apart.
             (old timers will say a hand grenade blast apart)

             In police work , stay a shotgun blast apart

Also, opens up fields of vision, lines and angles fire, well, even a 8 year kid that plays paintball knows these things.

Suddenly last summer,