Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Stick and Baton Combatives => Topic started by: Joe Hubbard on November 06, 2010, 06:08:47 PM

Title: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: Joe Hubbard on November 06, 2010, 06:08:47 PM
New clip:



Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: redhawk44357 on November 07, 2010, 06:34:00 AM
First of all, loved the clip. As a stick man myself (cane that is - bad knee) I liked your use of combinations - blows to the head mixed with arm shots and pomel strikes. As i watched the video a thought came to me.  When you had the stick, clearly you were the major player and your partner mostly defensive. When you reversed roles, again you seem to overpower him. Had he been more agressive with his stick the encounter could have gone either way. Was this clip designed to show your moves or was the partner less skilled?  Again, i enjoyed it, thank you for posting.
Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: JimH on November 07, 2010, 10:13:41 AM
Nice clip as always Joe.

We must remember that you are using a training stick,and the knife attacker has on a glove.
Had the stick been real and the hand not covered,one to two strikes to the hand and or head with the stick would have terminated the attack.

Is that your school the clip is filmed at ?
If so it seems like a nice school.

All the Best
Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: Bryan on November 07, 2010, 12:30:11 PM
Looked like a good training session. Overall it looked good but I dont believe anyone stating a blade cannot get inside on a stick. Its standard training to defend unarmed Vs. stick or baton. While that's not a desirable scenario to be in, unarmed Vs. stick we all train it out of necessity.

This is rock, paper, scissors, minus dynamite. Try this scenario and see if it works for you,

Weapon Vs. Unarmed Weapon Forward

Blade on Blade Weapon Forward

Blade on Stick Empty Hand Forward

Think of it like this, change tactics to defend the blade from the stick. If the stick comes in use empty hand to deflect, jab, and clinch. Use protected knife inside in the clinch. Sticking the blade out and providing the blade hand as a target against a baton if often a loosing proposition. While one should never exchange a free shot from a stick with a stab, it is worth it to exchange a deflected shot from a stick to close and engage.

Another thing this does with most blade and stick trained guys is bring them to you as they will likely attack the weapon hand whether its forward or back. This is not suggesting one can take hits from a stick, its prioritizing the control and retention of the weapon. I don't see many trainers placing high emphasis on weapon retention when it comes to blades. Lots of people preach weapon retention with firearms but  its the same thing with blades. If a guy comes after your firearm with a stick your going to keep it close, protect it, not push it out. In the scenario with the firearm your trying to create distance to discharge the weapon. With the blade its the same thing only closing distance to to engage your blade.

Whats written here is far from definitive. Its just a few words on the subject to give some ideas of new scenarios to train. Jim is always asking me to explain a few concepts so this was written for him, Chok Dee!
Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: whitewolf on November 07, 2010, 06:57:50 PM
Good techniques-gave me some ideas fofr training- keep it up WW
Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: Keith Miller on November 07, 2010, 08:43:07 PM
He kicked with the shin Whitewolf...I thought that would get u killed in the street?
Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: JimH on November 13, 2010, 09:05:33 PM
Very nice explanation Bryan.
Much appreciated.
I enjoyed reading it .

If I may:
We train as suggested.
Weapon vs Unarmed, Weapon Forward
Blade vs Blade ,weapon forward
Blade on stick,weapon back

I agree with the points raised ,many train with the blade forward and few train to guard the blade as they would a firearm.

I train (in addition to the above list):
Weapon vs Unarmed,weapon back
Blade vs Blade ,weapon back
Blade vs Stick ,weapon forward.

Now since the dialogue is on blade back,empty hand forward,I train to attack into the empty hand and treat it as a weapon,(which it is).
If armed with empty hand,stick or knife and attacker holds knife back and puts the empty hand out I go right after the empty hand as I cut at angle to the outside of the empty hand.

Attacker holds knife in right hand and back,protected,and puts out the left arm and hand ,we attack into the left hand ,cut to the outside of the left,get even or slightly behind the attacker,preventing use of his empty hand,stick or blade unless he moves to a position or angle for proper use.
When the empty hand is knocked down and forwrad,we move to even or behind and strike to the head from position of advantage.

Just  a method I use and we train at the school I attend to deal with empty hand forward attacks.

Any ideas on this are appreciated.
Title: Re: Stick Vs. Knife Clip
Post by: Joe Hubbard on November 22, 2010, 11:34:55 AM

This clip was filmed during a P.I.T. session that I was teaching to a small group.  The guy who was sparring with me was definitely less skilled, but at the same time he was a little apprehensive to go on the attack. 


You are spot on in recognising why we would practice this long range format.  We do not fight like this, but to run in blindly and exchange blows with the other guy "weaponed-up" is a suicide mission to say the least.  The whole objective in this long range structure is to practice the impact disarm and then enter.

The clip was filmed at my buddy Jason Gaule's school.