Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Stick and Baton Combatives => Topic started by: Adventure on April 11, 2011, 12:15:50 PM

Title: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Adventure on April 11, 2011, 12:15:50 PM
Is there any reason to spar live stick - no gloves, no helmet - and risk damaging those small hand bones (metacarpals).

What are the pro/cons? Can you learn this any other way?

Adventure
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Hock on April 11, 2011, 01:14:48 PM
Do you need to be shot with a real bullet from a gun to learn that bullets suck? Something to think about.

Hock

Hey, saw Trent Suziki the other day...
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Adventure on April 11, 2011, 02:37:46 PM
Hock, did he say how he is doing?
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Hock on April 11, 2011, 11:03:21 PM
Just fine.
I see and hear from through the years. i just thought I'd better post a picture. Lots of his "redneck" friends haven't seen him lately though.

Hock
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Webby on April 12, 2011, 06:33:14 AM
I watched one of the Dog Bros. Video's moon's ago and there was some full-contact fighting. One guy was stuck on the knee ( unpadded ) with a heavy stick at full force. Needless to say his knee was smashed you could see the displacement of the bones.

Major surgery, months of rehabilitation. I failed to see the point. That's not training that's just reckless and stupid. I fail to see any benefit in such training. It's not risky it's pointlessly dangerous. Train padded up and respect your training partner. Full force with no padding and other vital protective kit is a game for those with a death wish.

Webby..
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: whitewolf on April 12, 2011, 06:49:40 AM
Web hit it right on the nose -so to speak- I have seen many full contact fights-no equipment-one of the two students always got hurt-waste of time in my opinion-
long time ago in another world-I was matched against a superior trained individual-end result=me -broken nose- dam it hurt-no gloves-no mouth pieces- i was not a happy cmaper- only thing i learned is fight harder than the other guy-forever......WW
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Adventure on April 12, 2011, 10:59:16 AM
Web-

They say you will not respect the stick with pads on. Or that you will never really learn to get your hand out of the way if it is all was gloved.

 

I have been to the DB gatherings & watched knees injured, Lacs to the head, broken forearms & knock outs to the side of the neck....I can understand wanting to know if your skills work; but is this truly the only way to know?
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Hock on April 12, 2011, 12:01:29 PM
And in the end. Do you want to be really good at...stick vs stick...dueling?
Why? Why in the world why? That is the real question.

Is THAT duel - one most unlikely to happen in real life -  what you REALLY want to do?
If so? Then fine. Be happy ( and have GREAT medical insurance)

Hock
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Adventure on April 13, 2011, 01:38:23 AM
And in the end. Do you want to be really good at...stick vs stick...dueling?
Why? Why in the world why? That is the real question.

Is THAT duel - one most unlikely to happen in real life -  what you REALLY want to do?
If so? Then fine. Be happy ( and have GREAT medical insurance)

Hock


I keep thing of the Myth of the Duel in the back of my mind when I talk to them. I will ask them next time this comes up if they have gone live stick vs hands?

Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Kentbob on April 13, 2011, 11:07:06 AM
I think there is value in doing this on occasion, with some safety gear such as lacrosse gloves and some of the WEKAF sparring suits, or kendo armor.  However, doing it as much as the Dog Brothers like to do seems counterproductive.  As an instructor at a seminar pointed out, if we go out there full tilt and get hurt, what happens if we're in a situation the following day where we need to be able to function without broken or battered body parts?  To put it another way, if I take a solid whack on my elbow, what am I supposed to do tomorrow if I end up in a situation where I need that arm to be fully functional?  Not to mention the limitations an injured elbow would put on the rest of my training, ie CrossFit and further combatives training.  Once in a while is good, just like everything else.  Moderation.  Of more value to me is fighting mixed weapons, stick vs. gun, knife vs. gun, knife vs. stick, gun vs. stick, long gun vs. stick.  The chances that I will have to engage someone with a stick seem very small.  The chances that I will have to engage a bad guy with a jammed rifle in close quarters seem much higher. 

Kent
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: whitewolf on April 13, 2011, 01:28:52 PM
One time awhile ago a friend of mine brought a training suit to class-the elbows were not padded  and he had a student attack him with a stick-she swung and he blocked -stick struck the elbow and he was out of commission for a month- the elbow swelled up immediately and he could not use the arm at all-so-i agree full power to unpadded bodies causes pain----or worse- WW
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Hock on April 13, 2011, 02:38:14 PM
"However, doing it as much as the Dog Brothers like to do seems counterproductive."

Actually they really don't do it that much. They can't. The classes and seminars are not full-bore stick fighting, but regular training classes as one might find in many FMA class. So folks should go to sign up in regular Denny classes and should go to regular Denny seminars because they WILL NOT be beaten up and smashed like a proverbial "park fight." Do not be imtimidated and go do the Denny classes. Then once in awhile some of them have an "event." Not everyone does it. They understand and its no problem.

All the old Dog Brothers had to eventually give up that sort off fighting. You simply can't do it regularly and you especially can't do it when you get just a bit older. The older Dogs "retired" from it years ago leaving it to Denny. Mark Denny now says he "hasn't retired" from it but doesn't do it anymore. Just organizes and "refs" the fights.

Hock
Title: Re: Fighting Live stick
Post by: Professor on April 21, 2011, 08:52:59 AM
Sticks are unforgiving and can change the way that you proceed in life.   It's a less-lethal weapon that needs to be given tremendous respect.

I have fought every way imaginable with a stick.  I'm alive and not disabled from it.


Did I NEED to do it?  Yes, for my ego.    Not for my training and teaching.
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