Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Unarmed Combatives => Topic started by: gematriot on April 10, 2012, 06:40:10 AM

Title: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: gematriot on April 10, 2012, 06:40:10 AM
Part of a Secret Service Program, Martin Wheeler shows how simple body mechanics, psychological deception and body control are the most basic and most efficient ways to protect and defend in combat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jw6K0xO7rso
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: JimH on April 10, 2012, 04:06:36 PM
Wheeler teaches systema,he does not teach the sceret service as a whole,as a unit,maybe certain secret service agents,but as with all those shows he is shown as a knowledge expert,due to having worked in the Security Field, rather than an actual Secret Service Trainer /Expert.
These shows do not show what the secret service are taught but bring in knowledge experts like Wheeler and Progressive Combat Solutions to show what Secret Service agents COULD BE Learning/Training in.
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: Canuk on April 10, 2012, 05:48:01 PM
Pfft, JW teaches the SS after having served as the head shed tacticool guy
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: JimH on April 11, 2012, 07:56:35 AM
The thing is these people are most times nothing to do with any of the agencies they seem to represent,be it the CIA,FBI,Secret Service,Army Rangers on and on,yet these producers do not make it clear that they cannot show what these agencies really do,and that they are using people to create situations and solutions which these people think the Secret Service,for example ,does and trains,(though not actual).
As the producers do not clarify that these people are hired ,not as Agents or Actual Trainers of Agents,but as some form of knowledge expert/consultant in the field of security,not even Subject Matter Experts on the Secret Service,people viewing then think these guys KNOW and or TEACH the Secret Service and they Hire them thinking they are getting Agents and or Actual Trainers of the Agency.
I am sure Wheeler and the Company he works for have gotten jobs and work since  the show as I know others who have been on these type shows and People Hire them as trainerss as they Believe these people do what they portrayed on the show,and these people DO NOT attempt to set them straight on their real lack of knowledge and partcipation on the subject.
You get on one of these shows,and if portrayed as an Agent or Trainer of Agents you get work,(by misleading an audience who believed you an expert because you appeared on a show).
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: whitewolf on April 11, 2012, 10:03:57 AM
I am at the point in my life that I really do  not believe most trainers when they say" this will work"-its my feeling from being smacked and doing the smacking that in the real world its the one who gets there first and strikes the opponent who walks away-
I was just told last night by a former bouncer/police oficer and in the martial arts for a  long time that one should strike immediately,fast, and to vulnerable targets-speed is essential to overcome- sounds good to me.
He also said due my age I need to follow this due to being up against a
much younger opponent-He said also that when the police come they wil see that I am 73 and atacked by a person 30-40 years younger  and things will go a lot better for me after they call EMS on the ass hole who assaulted me-hehehehe  JMHO  WW
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: TLE on April 11, 2012, 07:29:38 PM
"strike immediately, fast and to vulnerable targets"   I hope this wasn't a revelation to you WW!
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Com100%bat
Post by: whitewolf on April 12, 2012, 01:58:50 PM
TLE-no revelation- just passing on what this particular instructor was saying-and insuring that i do not fall into the trap of not going  100%
thanks-WW
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: F. Fuller on April 16, 2012, 03:08:37 PM
Not going to comment on the Systema but thigh holsters with polo shirts are a tactical faux pas :P
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: Webby on April 17, 2012, 04:13:08 AM
I felt that pushing the two attackers apart was an error. Surly shacking them into each other or at least dropping one in front on the other one so that he is then forced to A. Step over him or B. Go around him, I feel that this would be a better tactic. Forcing them apart meant he had to then close and deal with them separately over a greater distance, giving one of them more time to close on the VIP.
Thoughts on this anyone ?
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: Dawg on April 17, 2012, 06:53:19 AM
I'm with Webby. In the scenario demonstrated, one of the assailants was able to close in on the client while Wheeler was dealing with the other assailant. Create space between the threat and the client, not space between the assailants.
Not real big on all the "biological control" stuff until AFTER I've tenderized someone a bit anyway. Everything just seems to work a lot better for me that way.  ;D
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: noload on April 17, 2012, 08:42:26 AM
Has the fellow in the videos worked a lot of security or is he just passing along what he learned?
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: JimH on April 17, 2012, 03:33:08 PM
Martin wheeler was a bouncer in the UK and US for around 10 years.
That is the extent of his SECURITY experience.
His learning Systema has allowed him claims of teaching various spec ops units,police  SWAT and the same "Teacher of ALL Advanced Units of the world" that most martial trainers claim.

He is an Instructor over a Security expert,but like the Israeli's and Krav Maga,everyone that has been in the IDF or studied KM is automatically an expert in all fields of self defense and security/BG work,Systema people seem to follow the same flow,systema instructors are assumed to be experts in all facets of  SD/BG and security,so why not be classified as an EXPERT on a TV show claiming knowledge of Secret Service training,after all he did work Pub,Bar and Club Security,Very Similar to Secret Service work ,don't you think. LOL.
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: noload on April 17, 2012, 04:51:35 PM
Good lord, another guy dressed up for the Tactical Ball that's never even been to a dance.
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: Karl on April 18, 2012, 03:39:47 AM
Met Wheeler. at a systema martial arts seminar in Sydney a few weeks ago.
He told me that he had a Training company with Sonny Puzikas training the local SWAT team. He also moved totally different then, then in the u Tube movie.
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: whitewolf on April 18, 2012, 05:44:27 PM
Gem-not to go off the subject but the Secret Service needs to practise
keeping its zipper up-Lol  WW
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: Canuk on April 18, 2012, 05:58:07 PM
LOL
Title: Re: Biomechanics of Hand to Hand Combat
Post by: gematriot on April 18, 2012, 06:13:22 PM
WW... Don't be looking down there! ;D
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