Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

General Category => Gun Fighting => Topic started by: Kentbob on June 11, 2012, 11:13:23 AM

Title: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Kentbob on June 11, 2012, 11:13:23 AM
Since I'm a squad leader now, my platoon leader put me in charge of running what is to be our now weekly rifle range.

This week we have to do some admin stuff, like qualification.  Then I plan on doing some work on point shooting with our rifles, starting at 5 meters and working out to 25 meters.  We might go all the way out to 50 meters.  I'm also thinking about having everyone shoot the qualification in a standing position too, after they do the record qualification.

These boys are going to learn something while we're here, even if I have to get busted back to private to get it done.  I'll try to get some more pictures, and maybe even a video and post them here.

Kent
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Hock on June 11, 2012, 11:19:21 AM
Get some sims guns too! You can afford that right?  ;D

Hock
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Kentbob on June 12, 2012, 04:29:46 AM
Trust me, I want to.  I think live fire will be incredibly valuable for most of these guys, however, as we just haven't had that opportunity, except for 60 rounds at most.

Kent
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Professor on June 12, 2012, 06:35:07 AM
Pistol:

One inch round circles, 3 inch round circles and quarters.

Use these at different distances from 5 feet out to work on trigger control.   You can use the bottom of a coke can, etc to make 5 - 8 targets per page.

This will help them with sight, trigger control and offset for target acquisition at close range.

No time, then slowly intro a time element.
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Kentbob on June 12, 2012, 09:25:49 AM
We don't have pistols.  However, I respectfully disagree with you on trigger control.  If my soldiers are engaging a bad guy with a pistol at 5 feet, I would much prefer that they dump the entire fifteen round magazine into the bad guy as fast as possible. 

I understand your point of accuracy, and I think that's all well and good.  However, and I see this a lot in the military, getting all of your rounds into a 1 inch and a 3 inch circle is highly overrated in a close quarters fight, in my professional opinion.  What I prefer to teach them is to put as many rounds into a 9" circle as fast as possible.  A 9" circle pretty much encompasses the entire region of sternum.  A round in this area is likely going to hit something that the bad guy needs to survive.  5, 10, or 15 rounds, even with our wimpy 9mm, should hit enough vital organs that even a Taliban hopped up on opium and adrenaline should be put down. 

I'm not trying to debate the need for accuracy.  It's very important to be accurate.  However, none of us are trying out for a pistol competition.  I think the "cool" factor of shooting extremely tight shot groups works against the infantry a lot of times.  Soldiers work on making their shot groups tight, instead of squeezing off enough rounds to put the guy down.  You can certainly train to be both fast and accurate.  However, in a fight that is 50m or less, I will choose speed over accuracy.  That's with rifles, not pistols, however.  The four fundamentals are important, but my opinion is that in a close quarters fight, it's time to throw all that stuff out the window and simply concentrate on shooting the bad guy faster than he can shoot you. 

This is just based on my experience in training and combat.  I understand that others may hold different opinions.

Kent
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Kentbob on June 12, 2012, 09:28:44 AM
Oh, there's nothing to be excited about anymore.  Range has been canceled.  I am very sad.

Kent
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Professor on June 12, 2012, 09:54:00 AM
We don't have pistols.  However, I respectfully disagree with you on trigger control.  If my soldiers are engaging a bad guy with a pistol at 5 feet, I would much prefer that they dump the entire fifteen round magazine into the bad guy as fast as possible. 

This drill can be done with rifle with the same effects.   This is not a WHAT to do at 5 feet: What to do at five feet is kill the SOB!!

Rifle or pistol:

This can be done as stress fire - draw and fire 5 at a single circle - 5 in 3 sec.

This can be done for accuracy - draw, trigger control.   This will help with long range, or intermediate range.  EVERY bullet in the circle.

Aim small, miss small.   Add stress, add time, add movement, add cover, add malfunctions, add etc....

There's all kinds of drills, the target system itself gives you lot of flexibility over a "Typical" targets.


Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: VicMackey on August 14, 2012, 06:14:06 PM
Speaking of range time, I just participated in a local combat shooting competition (called "Tidewater Top Shot"/ sort of similar to IDPA) held every 2nd Saturday of each month, for the first time in my life. And I placed 8th for the civilian shooters category. Not bad, as I was surprised to even be in the top 10 for a newcomer and being also the only one who drew from concealment. I carried and used my H&K USP .40 over there. Looking forward to doing it again next month but with the S&W Model 457 .45. We all know that is competion shooting. But it is a great way not only to assess yourself but to train yourself to shoot fast and accurate under timed pressure while moving and reloading at the same time. 8)
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: Hock on August 14, 2012, 07:52:45 PM
They're fun to do.
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: VicMackey on August 15, 2012, 04:52:28 PM
Last month, I also took a concealed carry handgun course that lasted 7 hrs. I have taken other firearms training courses before but this is my first one related to concealed carry. The first 3 hrs. was classroom instruction that covered basic gun safety as well as other topics such as the 21 ft. reactionary gap, types of handguns, handgun ammunition, carry holsters, local use of force/deadly force laws, steps on how to get a carry permit, shooting stances, sight alignment, and immediate/intermediate action drills. We also watched videos of actual incidents and negligent discharges involving guns.
After the classroom, we did 4 hrs. of drawing/combat shooting/malfunction clearing drills at the range and shooting at different types of targets at 7 yds. And then we ended it with a class elimination match in which two students at a time had to shoot 8 steel plates as fast as they can and whoever shot the fastest advances to take on the next winner. And I won the match. And guess what? I had to take on the instructor and he beat me by about 3 plates. It was all fun though. And it is great to get a certificate and then plan to take advanced handgun courses in the future along with more competition shooting.
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: whitewolf on August 15, 2012, 07:37:12 PM
Now that  sounds like a good course-I  have heard of piss poor courses where they do  not touch on anything like you went through-stay  safe WW
Title: Re: Weekly Range Day
Post by: VicMackey on August 17, 2012, 07:19:19 AM
Now that  sounds like a good course-I  have heard of piss poor courses where they do  not touch on anything like you went through-stay  safe WW
Yup, this is the best cc course so far in the local area. Most of the others are more into gun safety and handling. There is even an online course where you view the downloaded instruction and then take the written test afterwards.
Download