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W. Hock Hochheim's

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Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

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Author Topic: Why the Elephant?  (Read 15230 times)

Hock

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Why the Elephant?
« on: June 05, 2006, 04:20:48 PM »

A few always ask, "Hock, why an elephant as a logo?"
 
Veteran insiders in the military and police world have long used the expression when talking about experienced operators.
 
''Work with him! He's seen the elephant,"
 
or
 
"Train with him-he's seen the elephant."

The elephant symbol and expression has come to represent real action and real experience. If you can't live it, then train with the people who have....kind of thing. The training mission is to collect this type of information.

That is why I selected the elephant as the CQC emblem. We try to be a repository for as much of this type of information as possible. Our books have true stories from all kinds of vets, this talk forum does, etc. It is a never-ending, and somewhat ever-changing process, of course.

Hock
« Last Edit: February 01, 2011, 09:38:11 AM by Hock »
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Hock

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2006, 04:24:46 PM »

The mad elephant is really the symbol of the CQC Group. Shown here on this page, to the left. The SFC Congress - the big umbrella - has the classic eagle, here on the left also. We have other symbols. The knife course has its logo. The PAC course, its logo. The Stick course has two logos actually, the two fists on a stick and the radical Killshot skull logo.

I was looking for something different.

Hock 
« Last Edit: June 05, 2006, 04:26:55 PM by HockHoch@aol.com »
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Hock

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2007, 09:39:17 PM »

The Elephant in the Room

We already know about the "seen the elephant" phrase, but another one of the main reasons I have chosen the angry elephant as the symbol for CQC Group is that is represents the old expression, the "Elephant in the room." The big elephant in the room is symbolic of the unspoken truth that so many know but so few dare to talk about. In one definition, the room is the martial arts room, or dojo if you well, and the unspoken truth is that common martial arts are abstract renderings of realistic fighting in a mixed weapon world.

Another point is the unspoken and missed aspect of the room itself. Where IS the "room" you are fighting in? You cannot properly train for a fight unless you know where the fight will actually be.

Missing in the dojo is the real context of the fight. What will be the real, chaotic situation that the fight will actually occur in? There is an elephant in the room when it comes to traditional martial arts.

Hock

 

Hock

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #3 on: December 26, 2008, 08:30:13 AM »

I also thought that the "Elephant and the Blind Men" story was such an interesting study. People only perceive what they touch in the story and cannot describe the elephant.

Soldiers, cops, fighters, train in this small-minded, manner also.

- each martial art is but a blind man's perception.
- each martial sport is but a blind man's perception.
- we forget the bigger picture, often completely naive and ignorant of it.   

           http://www.wordinfo.info/words/index/info/view_unit/1/?letter=B&spage=3

The raging elephant logo represents this issue.

Hock

mattvonb

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #4 on: June 20, 2010, 03:36:39 PM »

Two years later and I am the next guys putting something up.

I have always thought that expression "Having seen the elephant" came out of the British experience in Colonial Africa, one who hunts and or survives an encounter with an elephant.

Seems to imply steadfastness, daring, courage that sort of thing..
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Through sixty-six and seven they fought the Congo war
With their fingers on their triggers, knee-deep in gore
For days and nights they battled the Bantu to their knees
They killed to earn their living and to help out the Congolese

Hock

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #5 on: June 21, 2010, 08:07:54 AM »

Probably, directly, hunting the elephant and getting guides to hunt the elephant has to be origin of the expression. Hunters always wanted a guide that has "seen the elephant."
But it caught on worldwide as having been experienced in something round and/or dangerous.

It was uses for war vets in the Civil War, or if pioneers made it all across the Oregon Trail.
It was somewhat popular in the 1900s on to maybe the 1980s? Or so?

Now people do not use it in their vernacular and it means little to folks without an explanation.

Hock

Bryan

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2010, 11:06:50 AM »



When provoked the elephant is the single most violent creature on the face of the earth. There is also evidence they are almost human like in memory and relationships. Having spent some time around them in Thailand I got the impression they picked out people they liked and remembered them as individuals. I also heard stories of them terrorizing villages in the past, now there are very few wild ones left. Every year there were Elephants going bad savagely killing their handlers.

My understanding the term, "have you seen the elephant?" comes from the days of black powder arms and elephant confrontations. Its well known amongst hunters that a wounded elephant is the most dangerous game one can hunt. Even tigers and Griz pale in comparison to the danger of the elephant.
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Canuk

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2010, 06:06:50 AM »

The term "have you seen the Elephant" is being used in drink drive commercials in my area and is basically something that everyone sees as a problem but chooses to ignore for thier own reasons
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Hock

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2010, 10:37:23 AM »

Yeah that sounds like the "elephant in the room" theme, used when people are ignoring a big problem.

Hock

Hock

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Re: Why the Elephant?
« Reply #9 on: August 08, 2016, 03:07:05 PM »

Jiyu Yushi -  "For those who may wonder about the above historical tapesrty (replica), it is from the Getty's copy of Fiore dei Liberi's 1410 manuscript: FIOR di BATTAGLIA or FLOWER OF BATTLE. It alleges the main power cuts and thrust for a sword. The accompany "spirit" animals encompass Maestro Fiore's concepts a knight needed for success in battle: The 12 O'clock animal, the Lynx represents the learned and innate sensitivity needed to discern actual correct need to the task, with its subsequent distance, timing and positioning forthcoming from that need. The 3 O'clock animal, the Lion, represents the necessity of a bold and daring heart, as without that, the following applications are worthless. The 6 O'clock animal, the Elephant and castle thereupon perched, symbolizes both unfettered mind and unwavering strength of purpose and application. Too many think it is about physical balance and strength. True Combatants, of which Maestro was one, knows mental balance and mental strength usurp physical strength and balance. The 9 O'clock animal, the Tiger represents adaptability to the ever-changing circumstances of the contextual field of combat. The tiger quickly adapts to this dynamic environment, engaging what must be done as it must be accomplished. Ken Mondschein offers a nice little manual from the Getty-owned manuscript: THE KNIGHTLY ART OF BATTLE."

The 6 O'clock animal, the Elephant and castle thereupon perched, symbolizes both unfettered mind and unwavering strength of purpose and application. Too many think it is about physical balance and strength. True Combatants, of which Maestro was one, knows mental balance and mental strength usurp physical strength and balance.

 

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