Important Links

Hock's Blog

Hock's Downloads

CQC-Facebook

Hock's Facebook

Hock's Seminars

Hock's Shopsite

Hock's Web Page


New Products

Combat Kicks VID

Critical Contact VID

Death Grip of Knife VID

Dominant/Counter VID

First Contact VID

Impact Weapons Book

Knife Book

The Other Hand VID


Lauric Enterprises, Inc.
1314 W. McDermott
Ste 106-811
Allen, TX 75013
972-390-1777

 

 

 


W. Hock Hochheim's

           Combat Centric

Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • July 22, 2018, 04:24:38 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length

Author Topic: Tales or Remy Presas  (Read 9085 times)

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Tales or Remy Presas
« on: December 12, 2006, 09:28:10 AM »

After Remy's death and still now, there is a silly little feud going on of “Remy loved me best” among some of the Modern Arnis frontline folks. At the end of his life there was a distinct shuffling for positions of power, some of which was deplorably transparent and frankly…disgusting. After his death a variety of new named Modern Arnis organizations started up, the International-this and Intergalactic-that. There are numerous (over 10?) Tapi-Tapi Grandmasters now, all of whom no one can name. Huh? Can you? Unless you are one of them and maybe not even then.

All of the groups and Tapi GMs are now disintegrating away off the radar and for several reasons. One is…Remy was Remy and the course was really lead by his charisma. All his followers together cannot match the charisma in one of Remy's fingernails. Second, I believe an Arnis/Kali/Escrima system cannot be special and successful unless it is lead by a Filipino-blooded personage or family. Without this mystique, it simply cannot fly. Even when a Filipino/Arnis/Kali system appears to be successful? In the big picture, it is of only miniscule, niche interest and will never reach the heights of say-Tae Kwon Do or Gracie Jujitsu, Shotokan Karate or a common tennis match on TV. More people play golf badly on a weekday afternoon than the combined total of people worldwide who know Filipino martial arts even exist. It is a tough business.

I was not in this Remy loves-me best rat race. I am a second-degree black belt in Remy's Modern Arnis. I knew that was as far up as I wanted to go. The katas alone involved with advancing were just more than I can bear. I do not consider myself a Filipino martial artist or FMA instructor and only do so when seriously, seriously asked. I am simply not interested in Filipino martial arts. My interest lies only in tactics, the essence of combat. The curtain behind the curtain.

But, Remy and I were close. In my travels, I slept a few nights in the very room he slept in as a child in the Presas house in the Negros. In 1992, when he learned of my travels, we started becoming close. He stayed at my house several times for long periods and I have traveled with him doing seminars, as well as hosted him in my city. Remy was a fascinating person, a real killer and an animal fighter. (He broke my nose once in private training)

I will tell you here and now, I have zero idea who these Remy Presas children are that have been thrust upon the American scene. Few of us 80s and 90s old-timers with Remy do. I can only wonder what Remy would think about their sudden appearance? I mean, I wish them well and all. Good luck to you, but…who are you?

So anyway- the actual story…
About some 10 or 11 years ago, Remy was in a Dallas seminar and myself and my usual suspects, my students attended. At a lunch break, Remy and I were stretched out on the floor, our heads on Thai pads, talking. Tom Barnhart was sitting nearby.
A karate student of the school, a very stout, 25-ish year-old guy, walked up and quite respectfully interrupted us and asked Remy a question-some kind of grappling question on how some stand-up technique related to ground fighting. Remy answered and it became apparent that he needed to show the boy the steps involved.

I should say that this was the era when Dallas was completely mesmerized by the new Brazilian craze and-like all good, cookie-cutter karate schools- they simply had to be doing this stuff too. So anyway, this student was also a BJJ guy.

Remy rolled over and showed him the move he asked about. Then the kid, played the “what-if” game. He was smiling and friendly at the time. “What if I did this…?” Remy countered him instantly and easily. Consternation appeared on the boy's face and without asking this time, the student moved again and Remy countered him again. The kid's face actually got red. No more smile. And within 20 seconds these two were ground fighting. Remy at the time-well over 60 years old mind you. And Remy was doing quite well. But, the boy had clearly lost all of his cool. Remy was really just on the defensive and countering the boy.

This carried on and the boy's anger and frustration was escalating. Just about the time Barnhart and I felt the need to get up and pull this kid off, the kid accidentally brushed Remy's eyeglasses off. This extreme act seemed to bring him back to reality and quit instantly.

He said, “Oh, ok. I get it, sir.” He was red and out of breath. Remy rolled back to the wall and winked at me. But both Tom and I were impressed. He had foiled every move this stout kid did. Folks do not know or some forget that Remy was high-ranking Judo black belt as a young man in Manila. At least it seemed this kid didn't know anyway. But, he found out.

Each month, I'd like to write a bit about Remy and this one here is small in scale compared to future ones. Probably the next time I report on how the Marcos Government had planned to assassinate him on the Palace grounds…

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2006, 09:29:37 AM »

On my first trip to the Philippines to train at the Ernesto Presas Arnis De Mano School, we spent time actually training in the school, plus training in the Manila City Park (this apparently is somewhat of a tradition for visitors to do) and then about 7 days on the Negros Island. Extremely primitive there. Natives walking around like Tarzan with bolos tied to a rope arund their wastes.

Whilst in Manila, on a Sunday, one of Ermesto's long time black belts volunteered to take us to the Palace-the "White House" of Manila for a tour. The guy was a member of the "Philippine Secret Service" you might say, as it was about 14 years ago and I forget the unit's official title. He would give us the insider's tour. We got down there by the famous decorated buses called jeepneys. We (about 6 of us) got the insider tour. Our SS guide took us through the back Palace yards and once near a shed he stopped, and what he said really shocked me...

"It is here they were going to slit the throat of Remy Presas."

We knew, or I did from also training with Remy for a few years before that, in the 1970s right after Remy toured the world demonstrating Arnis, he returned to the islands and was greeted and treated like royalty because he did the work of a good will ambassador. Remy later told me that the new Marcos government had created all kinds of ministries and ministers and Marcos made an unathletic jerk-the Minister of Arnis. This politico was jealous of R emy and started demanding him to appear at his office. Which Remy ignored.

Remy told me, "Why should I go to him. He cannot even hold a stick, and he is minister of Arnis! My friends came to me and begged me to go see him, because they knew he was a killer in the military once."

Within a few weeks the minister gathered some agents to kidnap and kill Remy and Remy received a warning just in time. He was able to sneak out of the country with a second passport he had and escape the day before his planned kidnapping and murder. And now I stood where the execution was planned. I gotta' tell ya it gave me a shiver because I had heard the overall story so many times. This is such a thumbnail version of the intrigue that really happened.

One night at my house years later, Remy and I were watching television and by chance, the movie "A Dangerous Life" with Gary Busey came on. It is an immaculate version of the build-up and the fall of Marcos, but lame in the parts that Busey-the state department man- was in. Remy was mesmorized by the film. Yelling out when each new character walked in, "That guy! That guy (actor) even looks like that guy (politico)!" He said the names and events were perfect.

That movie link is attached below. Looking back, I think they were trying to make a "Year of Living Dangerously" with Mel Gibson all over, but the less you see of Busey, the better the movie is. No offense to Busey because he is a scene stealer in the right parts.

Hock

arnold

  • the king of cool
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 3189
  • oh that will get you killed
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2006, 12:00:20 PM »

There will never be another Remy. He completely foiled this young mans every attempt, and he was more than twice his age.
I had the pleasure of sitting with Remy once at a seminar and spoke with him in lenght about nothing in particular. He wasn't his usual self, as he had been sick, but still, he was Remy. He now decides that he wouild like to show me something. He tells me to get 2 chairs and 2 sticks. As we sit facing each other he starts with some drill and proceeds to completely take me apart and out of the chair.
"Mr. Tom, you are doing very well, please sit down, we continue" That old man handed me my ass for the next 20 minutes. "please sit, we talk some more" He told me of his younger days and fights he had been in.
All of these "wanna bees" today make me wanna puke.
I miss him terribly
Logged
I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

kamagong

  • Level 3
  • ****
  • Posts: 172
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2007, 09:04:41 AM »

Great stuff guys!  Would be good to hear more!
Logged
A life lived without a few scars is a wasted life.

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2007, 04:30:30 PM »

Time for another Remy story Hock!  I met him at a seminar and I was surprised how he was so different to his style!  By that I mean from the books and other instructors of Modern Arnis I had seen I had the impression of Karate with Sticks as it was rigid and linear and so on, yet he was nothing like that at all.  I was under the impression he adapted it to teach to hundreds at a time when it was accepted into the public school curriculum and as taught to the military etc.

I know that in the last 10 years at least he was far more fluid and classically FMA (with his Mano Mano style)  than what he appeared to be in the 70's and 80's.  I have all his books but, unlike my Edgar Sulite book, I was unable to get him to autograph them for me.

He is sorely missed, Lest We Forget.
Thanks, Perry
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2007, 06:24:19 PM »

The stange dicotmey of Remy is that he had legions of classical karate people holding sticks in their hands and doing moves. It was a huge business connection for him. But, most of these people never did make the hyper-leap to slinky, loose FMA.

Odd, but true. To this day. And this still gives Remy a tainted name amongst may FMA practitioners. YET, Remy could whip all their asses. As he did in many a real-deal fight in the islands.

Hock

usks1

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 364
  • Don't tell me.. show me..
    • U.S. Karate
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2007, 08:37:03 PM »

With all due respect to Remy...

Who is the person who brought him to America.... I know the real deal.. I also know the real story behind the gonna be killed by the Filipino military.... Anyway.. He was a leader in the FMA in America... But there is much more to the story.. But only few know the real story. Many have heard a story, but that don't make it true....

Not that any Modern Arnis people are gonna believe it anyways.... But what the hell... Riddle me this..
Who had the first modern arnis school in the U.S. in 1974?? Who did the first modern arnis / FMA expo in Oakland in 1974???

This was a full year before Remy made it to the states in 1975... And who knows how he made it to the states, and who helped him to get here... ??

Remy and Bruce Lee... Larger than life... But what's the real story..?

Logged
" I see people doing all kinds of crazy stuff.. Eatin razor blades and sh--t.. But I wanna know.. Can he fight?? "

Moses Powell ( RIP ) - The warrior within

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #7 on: March 02, 2007, 02:29:47 AM »

Well I am gulty of at one time thinking he was pretty stiff and his Modern Arnis was crap. The same for Ernesto and his ARJUKEN group.  However, I then went beyond the books and second hand rumour and did some seminars, trained with some of his better people and  so on. 

I think perhaps for a while until it was established amongst the mainstream MA of the era (70's) Modern Arnis had to resemble karate more than not to be accepted.  Also, with Karate although it is pretty linear and rigid to Shodan, after that it softens considerably and gets more fluid, rounder and internal.  many get to Shodan and start to teach and stop learning their art.

In Australia there is a man called Tino Cebrano, a Filipino from Hawaii who has a lage Karate organisation.  What few know is he also has some excellent FMA in his tool box.  His Balisong work is very, very street.  I asked him how come with such good FMA he is known for his Karate.  He replied that when he arrived in Australia in the late 1960's, that was what was known and paid the rent.  FMA was nothing and would never be more than a curiosity compared to Karate.

I would love to hear more about Remy Presas, good, bad or indifferent.  It wouldn;t ever change the fact he was one of the shakers and movers who put FMA on the map.  Cheers, Perry
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #8 on: March 02, 2007, 06:48:36 AM »

Yes Redcap - More stories and some of these stories in and about Remy are footnotes to history.

And has USKS 1 says - the real stories, "A" story? ...and then you have to ask the next level of questions?

Who do you believe?  And then...why do you choose to believe who is telling the real story?
You may have heard "A" story. Who'se? Why believe them?

"I also know the real story behind the gonna be killed by the Filipino military...."
The story I was told, was by the Palace Secret Service in Manila. What's yours? We need a good story.

"Riddle me this..."
Who had the first modern arnis school in the U.S. in 1974?? Who did the first modern arnis / FMA expo in Oakland in 1974???


Teddy Roosevelt and Leonard Wood (late of the MO. fort by the same name) stick-fought in the White House in 1905 under the direction of some Filipinos. I would guess that Max Pallen had the first Modern Arnis school in USA in the early 70s. But, Remy hardly ever really had a single school. I personally don't care who had the first little shop somewhere. Other Filipinos/systems in the USA were starting things before and about that time too.

Sam Walton...larger than life? But, I often think of the results. It is like, who had a little grocery store in Los Angeles, or who became Sam Walton.  Obviously, Sam Walton is more interesting and important. But, still, not to sure Modern Arnis people care that much to believe or disbelieve who had what first shop. Non-Modern Arnis people care nothing it at all. Remy never hit the stratosphere of Bruce Lee (MOVIES! MOVIES! MOVIES!) and I really don't think he thought he was larger than life.

And who knows how he made it to the states, and who helped him to get here... ??
Well, what I was told in the Philippines was Remy was given his travel visa to go teach Arnis in the USA and ealsewhere. Ernesto took his place at several of the good gigs that Remy left. But attached to the visa were some names, promises to go places and actual teach, like in the Oakland area. Part of the visa process.

I think in the end, Dan Insosanto, Remy Presas and Leo Gaje are the three driving forces promoting FMA in the USA in the 70s, 80s, and early 90s. Then it all seemed to die down. Remy when he went overboard on that Tapi-Tapi stuff. Inosantos's hiatus. Gaje virtually fleeing the USA? But, tireless, year after year, decade after decade. Promoting  the word. They set quite a stage. Now, the Dog Brothers and Sayoc Kali are the premeire, famous Filipino motivators/stalwarts that everyone knows of when you hear FMA. The Dog Brothers crazy park antics make them more known. Of course, Dan too. Still, but that hiatus he took a while back and really did break a chain of success on the subject. Now many MA people have never heard of him. And Gaje, is now back in the states frequently, but his incorigable nature makes him very unpopular. His day is past.

Edgar Saluite made a lasting name amongst a small knowledge-able group but only because Dan Inosanto thought he was cool. Inthat sense, it is a footnote to Lameco history. 

I think FMA in general has a lasting name amongst a very small, knowledge-able group. Its day has past for a good, long while. The MA world has moved on. Well, it return? Who can tell. Its weird out there.

Who is a "history" and who is a footnote to history? Why? bad breaks? Bad planning? Material? Charisma? Tragic flaws? Bad timing? Who becomes a footnote and who becomes the encyclopedia page? Why?

Stories. stories. Stories.
Hock

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #9 on: March 02, 2007, 07:46:10 AM »

Dan Inosanto had a hiatus?  Must of been the same time I had mine in the PI!  He was in Australia recently for his 70th birthday tour and I was asked if I was going to any of the seminars.  Although I consider him one of a few who influenced me early in my career and respect him and his skills, I told the asker that there was little point.  I had seen everything there was to see that I needed to see from JKD-Kali-Maphilindo Silat and so on.  Apart from that there would be just me going. In the old days I would take half a dozen from my school and we would all remember two or three different things so we would take away something of the dozens and dozens of drills and moves shown.

I agree FMA has had its day, its 15 minues of fame as it were.  Just as did Muay Thai, BJJ, Ninjitsu and whatever else.  The Dog Brothers have changed direction and gone even more tactical than Paul Vunak I believe, should keep the money coming in.  I remember (1989) full contact stick training with Sam Corral wearing motorcycle helmets and boxing gloves long before I ever heard of the Dog Brothers, but they made full contact stick fighting with minimal gear famous I guess so good for them.  I still think fencing masks are rather minimalist unless you add a little padding, we now use ice hockey helmets.

Sayoc Kali could be dying out the farther away we move from the release of that movie, The Hunted.  Amok are still using FMA knife stuff and claiming they are the only ones to test it for real over in South Africa.  I did a seminar with Tom Sotis last November and for $125 it was an expensive refresher of FMA knife drills and skills.  Nothing new there except for a rather intereseting yet complex theoretical model of a knife fight.

Here in Sydney I no longer teach Corral System Arnis.  Moved on.  Now we have a gig called Stick Fighter Journey, or SFJ.  We start with core FMA and move on to Vigny la canne, Irish Shillelagh, French Baton, Jo  and Bo and truncheons, pocketsticks and anything else that takes our fancy.  I am developing a less than lethal knife and accompanying system.  I think half the market is up for fitness and MMA etc and the rest is traditional still, so I will target them and Mr and Mrs Average.  Not with the stick stuff but my basic self protection system, cut down to 5 tools to 5 target areas from the old WalkSafe 10/10.

Will FMA have a resurgence?  Not DownUnder in my opinion and if it does then nothing like it was for a while there. What will keep on is the TMA, they have been around hundreds of years so why would they go?  And the general market wanting short courses and quick fix pills.  Mind you there will be the Krav Magas, Systemas, KFMs and other niche styles.  And that Comhrac Bas BS from Mr Clugson, that will endure...not.  Just my thoughts, Cheers Redcap
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Nick Hughes

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Fight Survival
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #10 on: March 02, 2007, 09:01:32 AM »

No disrespect to Mr Inosanto at all but the seminar I attended was the worst seminar I've ever been to and Ken, one of my top students and I, left at lunch and never went back.

Now, before anyone gets pissy, I'm the first to admit Mr Inosanto's knowledge is encyclopedic and he's undoubtedly forgotten more techniques than I've learned to this point but his seminar was junk.

I hadn't picked up sticks for years when I went and Ken had never used one at all.  We watched a great demo by Dan and then he said have at it.  All these experienced guys wailed away at each other and we stood there not knowing what he just did.  No breakdown, no explanation, just demonstration.

I looked for one of his assistants, a big lanky fooker, and motioned him over.  He sauntered over, showed us what to do and left us alone to practice.

A couple of min later...same thing.  I called the lanky fooker again who actually frowned.  (I guess he didn't like actually earning some of the money we'd paid) and, by the third complicated technique, he actually rolled his eyes at me at which point I very seriously considered knocking him out when he came over. (to the point I lined him up and visualized dropping him with a straight right)

At no point did Dan walk amongst the students to make sure they were getting it.

At no point did they ask the experience level of the attendees and split them up accordingly

All he did was a demo, play some music, demo, play some music, and then haul out a photo album of famous uncles and nephews and show them to us and then back to another demo.  No breakdown, no explanation, nada, zip, waste of money.

We left after lunch and caught a Jackie Chan movie before working out at the hotel pool...we learned more that afternoon than we did all morning.  As we left I heard one of their students say "Nah, it's exactly the same stuff he did last year" to a mate who was coming in for the afternoon session.

Singularly unimpressed was I.

I've spoken to people who've trained with him, and I know students of his personally (Jeff Espinous) for example, who are wizards and I've heard, and have no problem believing the classes he teaches are different in that he actually teaches.  His seminar however, at least the one I went to, sucked pus.

Nick
Logged
Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #11 on: March 02, 2007, 09:58:15 AM »

And all that Nick, is his other business problem. Yes.

When you go see Elvis, you can't expect Elvis to teach you how to play the guitar. You just go see Elvis because he is...Elvis. This has cost him through the years because even his underlings do a better job actually teaching the material.

Hock

Milldog1776

  • Guest
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #12 on: March 02, 2007, 09:58:50 AM »

Quote
"Nah, it's exactly the same stuff he did last year"
Ever go see a comedian live that you have caught on HBO or late night TV? You are all excited, and then they do the same routine that you saw on TV? That would be very disappointing in a martial arts seminar environment!
Logged

usks1

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 364
  • Don't tell me.. show me..
    • U.S. Karate
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #13 on: March 02, 2007, 01:37:15 PM »

With all due respect to Remy...

Who is the person who brought him to America.... I know the real deal.. I also know the real story behind the gonna be killed by the Filipino military.... Anyway.. He was a leader in the FMA in America... But there is much more to the story.. But only few know the real story. Many have heard a story, but that don't make it true....

Not that any Modern Arnis people are gonna believe it anyways.... But what the hell... Riddle me this..
Who had the first modern arnis school in the U.S. in 1974?? Who did the first modern arnis / FMA expo in Oakland in 1974???

This was a full year before Remy made it to the states in 1975... And who knows how he made it to the states, and who helped him to get here... ??

Remy and Bruce Lee... Larger than life... But what's the real story..?



Hock,
I had a couple of beers when I posted this, and after further review. I didn't do too well with getting my little point across.

The point I was trying to make is that most react as I typed.. "I know the deal".. "I know the real story"... It wasn't meant to look like I ( meaning me ) know the real one and only truth... How can I??

This stuff happened when I was a kid far and away from the Phillipines or even California. I have heard my versions too, from different sources, and most if not all are different.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we have all heard the old stories, and if we take the word as gospel then all we can do is argue. You can talk to one guy and hear a story, then another and the story is different but who really knows who is more accurate, or if they even really remember.. Hell it was over 30 years ago.

I wish I had a time machine so I could go back and find out the truth about some of the stories that float around. I am sure some were drummed up as hype, some have a solid footprint in truth... But how much of each is in the stories..? I guess we will never know.

The reason for this post was that a couple of weeks ago I had the opportunity to train with some old school Illustrimo / Cabales / Sulite people, and I was privy to discussions, and they too were different than some I had heard in the past... So again... Which ones are the real ones??

So time to climb into the time machine... Or maybe it is just better to let the stories go, and we can keep our heroes close to us.

The truth is never as cool as the story anyway.   ;)



Logged
" I see people doing all kinds of crazy stuff.. Eatin razor blades and sh--t.. But I wanna know.. Can he fight?? "

Moses Powell ( RIP ) - The warrior within

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #14 on: March 02, 2007, 04:41:33 PM »

Interesting Nick.  I have been to several JKD Kali seminars and found them all the same, hundreds of variations thrown at you to dazzle and impress.  I agree in the teaching, I learnt more at Nino Pilla's seminar as far as being taught something.

I also think a lot of the material is fun to do but neither practical nor anything I ever saw done at schools in the Philippines.  All the family systems had maybe a dozen techniques, few and basic drills and not much else other than a lot of sparring.  The clubs run by upscale, professional people went into more detail, often mixed Karate or Judo in with the Arnis (in one case, Combat Aikido! as opposed to regular Aikido I guess).

I have reverted to teaching just what was taught to me by Sam Corral, which on the face of it is not much but it is the core and opens the vault to so much more. We added tons of drills and such to the curriculum because it was expected back then.  If you didn;t have sumbradas and abecedarios you weren;t authentic FMA!  Now I don;t give a rat's arse what we are so long as my troops can win real fights.

How much is a seminar for Dan in the USA?  I think here it was US$50 for a two hour evening session.  Cheers Redcap
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Nick Hughes

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 1317
    • Fight Survival
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #15 on: March 02, 2007, 04:53:48 PM »

We paid $125US for the weekend in Atlanta.  We bailed after the morning session was over.

N
Logged
Hard pressed on my right. My center is yielding. Impossible to maneuver. Situation excellent. I am attacking.
--Ferdinand Foch-- at the Battle of the Marne

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #16 on: March 03, 2007, 08:07:18 PM »

I paid US$100 for an Amok seminar last year that was an expensive way to let me know I'm doing the same stuff (basicaly) as a man who is invited to train police and military and others in knife work around the world.  The seminar was fine, the material well presented and the presenter skilled and giving of his time and energy.  I just knew 95% of what was taught.  Again it started to get "comprehensive" with lots of stuff thrown at the attendees.

Is this something that is specific to any seminar with a FMA influence, basis, thread etc?  There are hundreds of variations so lets show them?

I agree with Hock, as an instructor you need three or four variations up your sleeve so if a few don;t work for the short fat dude or the skinny tall kid you will have something they can adapt.

I have recently stripped my FMA curriculum down to the core redonda siniwalli flow and not much else.  By focusing on so few variations I have really found a lot of detail that can be included for the advanced guys while not confusing the beginners.  Truly less is more!

So it was a weekend and you lasted the first morning?  I wonder how many were stilll there when the certificates were handed out.  You need those.  They fit into frames and go on your wall.  Cheers  Redcap.
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #17 on: March 04, 2007, 01:58:54 AM »

That sounds about spot on, Hock.  I like to err on the respectful side, naturally.

I thought the name Amok was a rather interesting choice but I really felt the whole "Brotherhood of the Knife" and forming tribes nonesense to be classic double handed anti-splash grip self gratification by digital manipulation.  Still, some people like that kind of thing.  I did ask Tom (respectfully) not to close his emails to me with "Yours in knifing" as I found that offensive and I do think using the term "Knifer" as one to be proud of a little offbeat.

Last year I criticised an article he wrote for Blitz magazine that I found, while technically very interesting and arguably quite correct in premise; a little too complex for the average student to grasp let alone apply in a high stress situation.  (At least not without making knife defence his life's work).  A debate ensued, all very polite etc and in the end Tom challenged a few of us to write a 1500 word knife article, the argument being you can;t put everything in a limited word article. 

I responded but he never ever even mentioned or acknowledged this. (That article was later published in the same magazine, Jan 2007)  After 24 hours there was a "well its been fun guys but I'm off to Spain, see you next month" email, nothing to even suggest he had read my article.  I had been accused by some of the Amok guys in oz of being disrespectful for questioning their great man (although Tom never seemed bothered by my difference of opinion), one even saying he was a nice bloke and well liked, internationally renowned and I should show some professional courtesy.  I responded it may have been courteous to acknowledge my article but I really wasn;t bothered that he didn;t do that.  It was not a big deal to me and no doubt neither to him.  I naturally claimed victory of in the Inaugral Tom Sotis 1500 Word Knife Article Challenge and made sure I rammed it up them every post for a week, hehehehehe.

I don;t know the veracity of his claims as a Professor or law enforcement anything.   As I said it was a well presented seminar by someone who was skilled in what they did.  I found the claims of being the only group in the world to have all the experience and right knowledge about edged weapon encounters a little presumptious but I guess it helps the sell. To me it was pretty much FMA-101 and from a LEO point of view I felt the attitude, nomenclature and execution, as I saw it and found it via their literature and web site, pretty far removed from my personal ideal of professional, responsible and ethical responses and methods of managing such situations and the training of people for same.  In a nut shell I felt a lot of the stuff Amok sell and the way they sell it will get you 12 years minimum no matter who started the incident.

I no longer hold the opinion you need to be skilled in using a knife to effectively train to defend against one.  The really skilled either don;t attack people like us or they do and you are dead.  The rest just slash and stab and it doesn't take a genius to mimic that so your partner can learn defences.  Now if you were teaching Commandos to kill with a knife, different story but Joe Citizen? 

Just my opinion. Cheers Redcap, Perry Gamsby  ( I include my full name as I have offered an opinion on a system and instructor, his material and methods. I don;t wish for anyone to wonder who wrote this.  Note however there is no offence intended or opinion on him personally etc)
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #18 on: March 04, 2007, 09:11:29 AM »

Say Redcap, why not put your knife article in the knife section on this forum? Make for good reading. Not to concerned it its too long at all. If you can't? No problem.

A good writer can wrap 1500 words on almost anything, either super broad overview, or a slice of a subject.

I know Tom is a good guy because I know people that grew up with him and know him his life. (Ergo - their questions - when was this super-cop/super soldier, government contractor /Jim Wagner-esque era? To Tom's  credit, he took down this extreme resume from his webpage a while back).

In the FMA heyday, he popped in and out all over the world making small groups of friends. Some are still in place. Bit I too have an icky feeling baout brotherhoods, tribes...all that.  So do cops and the military. It is one thing to be a brotherhood of veterens. airborne rangers -thats e real deal, its another to be a lessor brotherhood. Buuuut...well, whatever.

Hock

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 366
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #19 on: March 04, 2007, 02:58:10 PM »

Glad to put the article there to share, Hock.  I was contacted by one of the Piper System people from South Africa and I sent it to them.  They liked it and should be pressure testing the StreetShield concept as we speak.  My Method works for me (or I can make it work!)  but I am happy to have others try it and find the gaps.  Let me know where you found the gaps and I promise i won;t get defensive.  I'll just plug the bloody gaps and thank you very much for finding them with a rubber knife and not a real one in an alley sometime.

Anyway, I'll post and the members can read for themselves.  Happy to take your opinions and criticisms and grateful for the opportunity.  As I said, Tom was a nice bloke and he was very skilled at what he presented, no argument there from me.  Cheers, Redcap
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Bryan Lee

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 379
  • Rogue Elephant
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #20 on: March 17, 2007, 04:50:32 PM »

 I will not be forgetting my days and weeks in Bacolad, Negros Occidental. It is all very clear in my mind, my thoughts as the plane set down and I arrived grabbing my bag to be greeted by a scene which was more like a prison release with its chain link fences and barbed wire with people hanging all over everything staring at me like I was money laying on the ground to be picked up and made use of. Then a small man who I had a picture of in my hand somehow distinguished himself from all the others and we quickly left only to descend further into a lower level of fluid chaos which are the streets of Bacolad at midday with all the noise of a jungle only filled with the sounds of horns from dramatically painted  jeepnys instead of beautifully feathered birds.


   I never met Remy nor do I consider myself a FMA guy. I have been to the Philippines as many have, I have trained in stick fighting in the Philippines. I believe I was 5 months total in the Philippines most of which was around Ilo Ilo and I can say the entire time my defense was firearms not sticks. As far as the 21 ft rule for firearms I guess that doesn't count when you have a guy standing next to you with a sawed off pistol gripped 12 guage shotgun who thinks nothing of pointing directly at people for no particular reason. My adventures there were on my own and under no direction from any particular FMA person and had nothing to do with one of the FMA tour groups that travel there, I set my own agendas and went wherever I wanted. I would have stayed longer and I was scheduled to stick fight in Bacolad in Arnis  also I'm registered as a Arnis Player in the PI. The contest never happened for me as this was the final days of Estrada and it became so dangerous that I could only travel safely during the daylight hours to three locations, all of which had multiple men and weapons guarding them including my apartment I had named little Alcatraz because of all the gates, chain link fencing and barbed wire, not to mention the two guys with shotguns at the bottom of the stairs as I slept and watched the infamous chad count on fox news a world away from another type of chaos. I left around the first week of December 2000 and Estrada would hang on till January 20Th 2001, Those were very dark days in the Philippine Islands.




  Edited out content not relevant to Arnis


« Last Edit: June 12, 2007, 03:49:14 AM by Bryan Lee »
Logged
JimH, "Bryan, have you seen the Elephant?"  Bryan Lee, "I Am The MotherFFFFing Elephant!"

tcm_jedi

  • Forum Member
  • *
  • Posts: 6
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #21 on: June 22, 2007, 06:26:34 PM »

just to touch on something mentioned earlier on the first post, Remy's rank in Kodokan was because he managed to throw a godan, which according to Kodokan standards at the time, warrants Remy to wear Rokudan
Logged

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6372
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: Tales or Remy Presas
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2007, 12:37:36 PM »

http://remypresas.com/
More memories of Remy here...

Hock
 

Download