Important Links

Hock's Blog

Hock's Downloads

CQC-Facebook

Hock's Facebook

Hock's Seminars

Hock's Web Page

Hock's Author Page

Hock's WolfPack Author Page


Lauric Enterprises, Inc.
3075 Willow Grove Blvd.
#1105
McKinney, TX 75070
817-805-3068

 

 

 


W. Hock Hochheim's

           Combat Centric

Talk Forum for Military, Police, Martial Artists and Aware Citizenry



Hock Hochheim's Combat Talk Forum

  • November 28, 2020, 07:06:42 PM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Author Topic: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!  (Read 3163 times)

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
    • Streetwise Philippines
The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« on: February 06, 2007, 08:23:29 PM »

Something Nick Hughes wrote in a thread about getting in the way of the weapon when bodyguarding (and using an X block against a knife) made me think about this move. I first saw it at an Army unarmed combat display when I was 12.  Then I saw it in a Training Pam, I think it was a Commando War Stories In Pictures (remember them?) comic.  Then, I was officially certified to use it when taught this and so much more WW2 era jap slappin' on a UC course in the 1980's.

I have used it for real, twice.  Once when our unit religous nutter lost it in the back of a moving MkV International 6x6 and attacked the resident satan (me at the time) with his L1A1 SLR bayonet. Not very sharp but a bugger if you sat on one.

The next time was the day I left the Army and started work as a store detective in the city.  I ran outside to help my new partner who had yelled "Quick! Stop them!" only to find the reason he was stopping them was because both known criminals had stolen 9 inch Cook's knives from the kitchen department. He could have yelled "Quick! Stop them they stole 9 inch Cook's knives" but he was ex-navy so what do you expect?

I can still see it today, the hand lifting the t-shirt, the other hand pulling out a 9 foot long Cooks knife (damn thing never ended!) and in one fluid motion stabbing up into my guts with it.  I leapt back making space, sucking in my gut (it was suck-in-able in those days) and down came the crossed wrists in the never works for real X block.  Which stopped his thrust long enough  to quickly change his direction and slam him into the plate glass front window of BBC Hardware, George Street Sydney. 

I had no idea there were hundreds of shoppers surrounding us watching, or a bus at the bus stop until I locked his arm behind him and pinned him down.  At this an old lady leaned out of a bus window and yelled "Get the bastard into the office and beat the shit out of the c**t!"  It was then my hearing returned and the vision untunnelled.  I did get him back into the office at which point he turned on me like a rabid dog but I side stepped and he slammed into the sliding door, knocked it off its track and he fell to the floor with a broken nose!  I never laid a glove on him, honest! As the cops took them away they swore they were coming back with the sawn off 12 guages.  This was my first day as a civilian!

So, who else has a tale about the "never works for real" X block? I read through the "if you are in a knife fight you'll get cut" thread but as it is rather old I left it alone.  Just for the record, I'd take the gun and keep dodging him till I got it out and gave him all six in the one ear! I don;t think you should simply accept getting cut, ever.  Cheers, Redcap.
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

Hock

  • Administrator
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 6238
    • www.HocksCQC.com
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2007, 10:02:54 PM »

X - arms connected at the wrist.
X - arms connected at the forearm.
Arms disconnected and open forearms, one arm high, one arm low, in an open X
The "X", or x-block to me, exists in a continuum from tight wrist-to-wrist on up to loose one-arm high/one arm low.

(I actually leaned this X continuum idea from Ernesto Presas and the Filipino Crossada...

                "Don't just do the de' small X, because the arms can also do de' big X," he would advise.)

The classic x-block is a tightened-up version of the "zone blocking" one arm high, one arm low. Zone blocking is a reflexive movement. An x-block is a tightened, as-needed manifestation of this human reflex.

However, I have been in martial arts where the x-block was mandated soooo small and tight at the wrist. And it was OVER-revered. I hate to tell students to be so confined and mandatory. In fact I haven't taught the wrist, x-block alone since...well, never actually. Always the continuum. 

X - arms connected at the wrist.
X - arms connected at the forearm.
Arms disconnected and open forearms, one arm high, one arm low, in an "open X"

I would rather teach this in a continuum rather than just a sall, wrist area, x-block.

The knife attacker has to know that if he is blocked with an x-block, he needs to pull back and cut the x-block. And he may have to specially position his knife to get this cut. I do think there is reflexive retraction or pull back that could get an x-blocker in trouble, too, but not all untrained yanks, stay tight inside the X enough to get a cut.

There are so MANY follow-up possiblities from this cross-arm, position/continuum.

Long live the Zone-to-X blockings.

Hock
Hock
« Last Edit: February 06, 2007, 10:07:02 PM by HockHoch@aol.com »
Logged

grlaun

  • Rawhide
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • Jeff 'Rawhide' Laun
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #2 on: February 07, 2007, 07:15:01 AM »

...but he was ex-navy so what do you expect?

LOL!  Thats a good one!  (except usks1, OF COURSE!) ;D
Logged
Cheat in Beginning - Cheat in the Middle - Cheat in the End
Official Evil Ninja - 2008
Texas Peace Officer 8/2009
"You're making the wrong assumption that a Marine by himself is outnumbered"
Gen Peter Pace, 28Jul06
"You tell that muthaf**ka, he owes me money!"

mleone

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #3 on: February 07, 2007, 10:33:01 AM »

Granted it would work or has worked!  ;D
I have to disagree and say its "Low Probability".
If you survived with an xblock I think that its almost an anomolie. It can be functional but over use it and it could be more fatal.

Techniques can and may fall into place at times, during the chaos of combat. However It may be good to know and have in your arsenal. But here is a bit more!

Hocks famous "redirect on another line"!
One my students xblocked I just redirect and slit his throat. Right in training, high speed and low speed. So I have mixed feelings about it.

So granted it may work at times, get some one who is seasoned on knife redirects and it can prove to be dangerous. Ignorant street criminal yes, season knife person? Hmmmm?  Do you want a calculated risk? Parrying I feel has a bit more meat to it than an x block.

Just food for thought! Not disagreeing entirely.
Humans are intelligent when thwarted on angle they redirect or change angle.

We problem solve when thwarted.
We often:

Redirect
Hand Switch
Change line of attack
Punch with Empty Hand
Kick
Grab the limb
Stab at the grabbing limb
Explosively retract or thrust through

So I feel the xblock in the end has limited use much like the "Head Butt".
Could it work against some drunk Jakeleg that over chambers much like an Aikido practicioner?

Sure it could! Get a plucking stabber? Hmmmmm Gets you thinking doesnt it?


« Last Edit: February 07, 2007, 10:42:24 AM by mleone »
Logged

usks1

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 358
  • Don't tell me.. show me..
    • U.S. Karate
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #4 on: February 07, 2007, 11:20:42 AM »

...but he was ex-navy so what do you expect?

LOL!  Thats a good one!  (except usks1, OF COURSE!) ;D

 :-*
Logged
" I see people doing all kinds of crazy stuff.. Eatin razor blades and sh--t.. But I wanna know.. Can he fight?? "

Moses Powell ( RIP ) - The warrior within

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2007, 03:04:16 AM »

My apologies to the Senior Service for the little dig, hehehehehe.  As for the X Block, I agree with Hock, it is part of a series of options.  I disagree with mleone, I have used the move instnctively when needed and without the slightest thought as to how skilled or otherwise the knifer was.

Theoretically I am sure you are correct, but if I was up against a skilled knife fighter and I pulled the X block I would still flow straight into neutralizing him ie; the X block is a frozen moment in time where the objective is to stop the knife plunging into you, once achieved you move on.  (Unlike many instructors who have spent too much time in Ippon type competitions where they do the move then await the applause!)

If someone is skilled enough to redirect and slit my throat and I didn;t stop them doing it then they won the fight, or more appropriately succeeded in murdering me.  Most knife situations I have been personally involved in, either directly or as an eye witness, the knifer was neither skilled not intent on killing.  Stabbing or slashing, sure.  Killing?  I don;t think so and there is a world of difference in the intent in my limited experience ( I can only think of one time where the knifer was trying to kill me and not scare me, warn me, intimidate or just harm me.)

I have seen X blocks in medieval textbooks going back to the 1300's.  I think if it were that "low probability" it would not have hung around.  I do concede it is part of a larger picture and all "blocks" (as opposed to parries, slips, slaps and whatever) should be used as directed, if pain persists, see your doctor.  Cheers, Perry
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

mleone

  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2007, 07:08:13 AM »

Beware of the unquestioned conviction! You can never be too sure and if you are so sure and it fails then it is your life at stake.

Never say never, It may work it may not! Combat is loaded with grey areas. But use it as a default I feel can be dangerous.
Check out Hocks dvds for added defenses.
Logged

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2007, 02:40:43 PM »

Beware of the unquestioned conviction! You can never be too sure and if you are so sure and it fails then it is your life at stake.

Never say never, It may work it may not! Combat is loaded with grey areas. But use it as a default I feel can be dangerous.
Check out Hocks dvds for added defenses.
I like to look at it a little differently.  I know what has worked for me in the past and I know next time it might fail.  There are no guarantees but unless you put your faith in something then you have nothing.  You can;t hedge all bets, sometimes you have to make a decision and then live with it.

I learnt this in a rain soaked, muddy field in Queensland when I was still a teenager.  A rather large, obnoxious sergeant kicked me in the arse and yelled in my ear over the noise of the flash-bangs and mortar simulators and popping of blanks and the crack! crack! crack! of live rounds twenty feet overhead on fixed lines and he said "Your men are dying section commander!  What the F**K are you going to do about it?  Make a F***ing decision son!" So I threw smoke, told the lads to fix bayonets and we charged the "enemy".  We all died a glorious death (except for the supporting gun group) and I am sure our parents would have been proud.  As the sergeant said later during our debrief, it turned out to be the wrong decision but the important fact was I made one.  If I had stayed where I was even the M60 crew would have been killed.  I have never forgotten that lesson and I have made several more wrong decisions since then, but after the first, they get easier!  Cheers, Perry
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour

grlaun

  • Rawhide
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 1291
  • Jeff 'Rawhide' Laun
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2007, 04:55:38 PM »

A good lesson learned indeed.
Logged
Cheat in Beginning - Cheat in the Middle - Cheat in the End
Official Evil Ninja - 2008
Texas Peace Officer 8/2009
"You're making the wrong assumption that a Marine by himself is outnumbered"
Gen Peter Pace, 28Jul06
"You tell that muthaf**ka, he owes me money!"

410indashade

  • Level 3
  • ****
  • Posts: 138
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #9 on: February 20, 2007, 03:14:28 AM »

I have never used the "X" block having been discourage from it's use early in my training.  But I like redcap's approach tending to rely on what has worked for him in the past.  Like experienced combatants everywhere I have to trust my own instinct and reactions in a physical conflict.
Logged
"Adapt and overcome"

redcap

  • "I've done dead, didn't like it" 22 June 2009
  • Level 4
  • *****
  • Posts: 355
    • Streetwise Philippines
Re: The Infamous "Never Work For Real" X Block!
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2007, 11:52:44 PM »

I think the X block is an effective move but not always the best choice.  Of course the moment you realise it was the wrong choice can be one of those "life changing" moments we've all had.  Otherwise immortalised as an "Oh Sh*t!" moment.

I once worked with a middle aged former rock singer, Dave (selling magazine ad space of all things) who still enjoyed a drink and still got into differences of opinion from time to time.  He had one trick in his bag, a massive right hand punch.  That's it.  Nothing else, never needed more!  I had him play the aggressor at a scenario session I ran and he just wasted everybody.  Black belts in (insert name of martial art here) were simply knocked flat before they could do anything.

He had always won all his fights by being belligerant, aggressive, loud and violent..with one, fast, super powerful punch.  Why would he change what had always worked for him.  just like your average criminal with a blade, they have never had the training a FMA stylist may have had.  Don;t need it.  They know if they stick that knife in you really fast many times they win, but best to do it first.

I did manage to double Dave's arsenal of effective techniques.  I taught him to shove the bloke first with a mighty paw at the right collar bone. He would stagger back and reach for the sore spot with his left hand just as Technique #1 came smashing into his jaw.  That worked a treat and Dave felt the consumate martial artist after that!  Cheers, Redcap.
Logged
“No man knows the hour of his ending, nor can he choose the place or the manner of his going. To each it is given to die proudly, to die well, and this is, indeed, the final measure of the man.” Louis L’Amour
 

Download