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Author Topic: Wagner owned HSS? And Other Wagner/HSS Whoppers!  (Read 13820 times)

JimH

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Wagner owned HSS? And Other Wagner/HSS Whoppers!
« on: August 09, 2008, 08:57:05 AM »

Wagner is reading these posts and or being sent these posts as his web site and bio chnage daily to include ,support his claims with more detail and or more pictures and PDF files.
(one does not need ot be a member here to read the forum,this is why I and others ask him questions here  and he then changes his bio,lol)

The more he adds though the more he digs a deeper hole.

Since these posts began we see people like Mr Jeff Clancy mentioned and stroked.
We see his mentioning of HSS as the place he got most of his exposure,first as a trainer,then a part owner,then a quater owner,then the owner ,then he sold it to go full bore into Reality Based.
We see his mentioning of Joe Hubbard,with naming him.
(too bad he didn't put your name up Joe then people would be contacting you for REAL Training as the Europeans wake up to what apparently the US members of his have learned,it is all Wagner BS)

Wagner changes his web site daily,he must be spending the whole day on there.

He counts on former students ,and units that he showed his stuff to and former employers to keep quiet.

Jim the shoe is going to drop soon.

Time to see how that startle/flinch concept works.
Duck and Cover
(Oh that is not yours,you never heard of it or others teaching Reality before you termed it,well you better use it any way,LOL)

Hey Jim be a Hard Target ,lol
« Last Edit: May 08, 2010, 06:35:52 AM by Hock »
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JimH

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? Another Whopper!
« Reply #1 on: August 09, 2008, 07:46:00 PM »

Holy crap Jim you are fast.
The message was posted this morning and tonight the part where you became the sole owner and later sold the compnay to start Reality Based is changed to you were a founder and 1/4 th owner and sold your SHARES to run your Reality Based Self Defense.

You must be reading and updating/changing as soon as something is mentioned.
LOL.

I love the HSS section and how HSS had these Trainers who were the Real Deal,SWAT,Police Officers,Divers,Medics,Special Forces,USMC Snipers and USMC Recon and they run a two day course you attend and then you are able to run the course as well or better than men who did it regularly.
You have better results at modeling than Tony Robbins,lol.
Truly Unbelievable stuff.



« Last Edit: May 21, 2010, 07:49:25 AM by Hock »
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Hock

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? Another Whopper!
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2009, 05:59:24 AM »

Added here from another thread only to save space and shrink the number of Wagner threads. This comes from veteran DEA Jeff Clancy:


States Federal Agent Clancy-

"Let us take  a closer look at this for a moment.  I guess in JW's world, trust consists of posting people's bios and photos on his website w/o their permission as he has now done in my case.  No worries.  Let's separate fact from fiction here.   

Embellishment:  JW states the following:  Jeff Clancy was an agent with the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), San Diego Field Division, and Defensive Tactics instructor, who hosted Jim Wagner to teach combatives (law enforcement self-defense) and protective services courses on a few occasions at the DEA San Diego Field Division. 

Fact:   Jeff is, not was (not retired yet).  DEA San Diego has hosted HSS International on a number of occasions and during the early years (1999-2002) JW was part of that package.  However, he was only there for a couple of  courses; primarily as an assistant to Ben Alexander for the Tactical Medic course.  He never taught a combatives course at our office.  The Protective Services Courses conducted at our office were taught primarily by Chris St Jacques, assisted by other instructors such as Tom Love and Jim Rewald.   

Embellishment: "Jim Wagner who was one of the original founders and one fourth owner of the police and military training corporation called HSS International. Jim Wagner had created all of the combatives programs for his corporation......"   This taken right from his website.  "His corporation" referring to HSS which he claimed one fourth ownership on his website and 40 percent ownership in a letter written by him to Strategic Operations. 

Fact: Jim told me point blank that the combatives programs for HSS International were designed by the following individuals:  him, Chris St Jacques, Rob Riley, Ken Alexander and Tom Love.  Not only did JW tell me this but at some point, I've taught classes with the aforementioned individuals; all of whom can attest to this.  So JW had input, but was not the sole architect of these programs. 


Embellishment:   "(thanks to my student DEA agent Jeff Clancy), and the list goes on."  Again, taken from JW's website where he lists the myriad law enforcement agencies he's trained. 

Fact:   Again, there was mutual collaboration on his knife video and a couple of other projects, some teaching opportunities together through HSS, and assistance from me in designing the ground combatives program for HSS; however, I was not JW's student, have never been to one of his "reality based" courses (other than HSS sponsored training) and have not seen him since he was with HSS.


Embellishment: "he (JW) and Chris St. Jacques (Canadian HSS Instructor and long time combatives student of Jimís)" 

Fact:     If anything, it's the other way around.  Chris was not a student of his either and in fact is a long time accomplished martial artist/combatives instructor with a ton of experience teaching detac. 

There's obviously more, but I think I've made my point.  Don't be duped by this man.  JW is a master at manipulating the truth, using people to further his agenda and avoiding accountability.   

Until next time."

JeffC,
DEA

(See Chris's comments a few entries below)


« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 08:30:00 PM by Hock »
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JimH

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? Another Whopper!
« Reply #3 on: April 15, 2010, 09:03:13 AM »

Want to see a Really Funny video clip of actual Wagner HSS training in counter snipr training:
http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/news31mar10impacthead.html

Go to bottom of the page click on the Counter sniper.
(the other clip is a video of Wagner at a Police academy as a cadet,lol,how do you get a camera guy to follow you in the academy ??)

The counter sniper is funny in that they have two guys in Ghillie suits strolling along  walking more or lewss in the open using no tactics and or use of cover and they are ambushed by ,what are supposed to be US Marines,thrown in a Humvee,and taken away.

I certainly hope that crap was not the level of instruction people paid HSS for.
I hope it was JW stuff and not what the REAL DEAL Guys of HSS did and sold.

I guess it was posted to show something JW thought was good training,the kind he sells today.
Well it was along the lines of the BS sold today by JW, as aside from basic unarmed combatives and basic knife ,(both of which are very basic and found in most  school of instruction,with a realistic spin) his other courses are BS Garbage.

I want to see clips of how to avoid a TERRORIST attack,LOL.

Other clips to follow.
I hope they are as funny as these were,lol.
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grlaun

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? Another Whopper!
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2010, 01:28:02 PM »

GREAT post Jim!  My thoughts exactly... Which sniper team in their right mind walks along a road or dry creek bed.  Hell, I've been out for 20 years and I could catch them!  hahahahaah! ROFLMAO...
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Hock

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? Another Whopper!
« Reply #5 on: May 05, 2010, 07:24:57 AM »

This posted from from Hamic's dedicated page on Wagner.
This writer - Chris St-Jacques- is a well-respected trainer from Canada....again I do so because trying to delete and shrink the Wagner footprint on this forum


Hello Sir (Robb Hamic),
I can see the extend work that you have done bringing Wagner to the surface and I commend you for it.  I want to say that I was not just had by Wagner but I was defrauded  money wise also.  My story quick is I met Wagner through HSS being a Tactical Instructor for the company I was introduce to him.  Nonetheless I was teaching many defensive tactic courses for HSS and Wagner became somewhat a partner.  When he left HSS he ask me to continue helping him  and said yes as I did not know why he was let go by HSS.  I help him build many of his curriculum gave him many tactic and taught him many martial art technique as I am a Black belt in Jukaikido, Kyokushin and Jujitsu and a Master instructor for the biggest Canadian Federal Police.

After one year I became suspicious as he was asking to go teach classes for him in NY city and will never pay me leaving with all the fees of my hotel,food and travel cost as he was pocketing all the money.  As I confronted him with this he began diverting all questions and asking me again to teach somewhere else with promises of great success.

Being a cop I started to call around and contacted the CEO of HSS who gave me the full story about Jim not being a cop and defrauding HSS for some huge amount of cash.  He also gave me the reason why he wasn't contacted me to teach as I was associating myself with him.  At this point I confronted Wagner and he gave me many lame excuses that everyone was conspiring against him.  When ask about were he was a cop he would be very vague so I took it upon myself again to call the PD  was stating he was with and I was crush to know that they did not have any Wagner working for them.  After pushing my investigation I discover that a retired friend of Wagner that was working for the PD in question had given him a courtesy badge as you need to be a full fledge Officer to teach for HSS.

As soon that I uncover all Wagner's bullshit I immediately cease my association with him as I also find out he was always namedropping my name to say that he was teaching me and that I was his student when in fact I am the one who was teaching him and helping him with his crap.

After some heated argument with him I requested that he take my name off his site and stop using my name a thing that he never did stating that he's not doing anything wrong as we were together before.

Please take my name (off the Wagner instructor list you have on your page) as I don't want to be associating with him in any circumstances.

Thanks in advance for your great work


Chris St-Jacques

« Last Edit: July 26, 2016, 10:11:22 AM by Hock »
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robbhamic

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #6 on: May 05, 2010, 12:59:25 PM »

I guess Chris is a French speaking guy.  He sent me a more direct email today telling me about his story.  I deleted the other one and added the more concise statement.  It is worth reading.

Robb Hamic
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JimH

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2010, 02:33:45 PM »

Hi Robb,
I read the 5/5/10 email from Wagner to you.

Wagner says that people come to him because his materials work,not because of his claims .
Well why make the claims then ?

I am certified under Wagner.
I attended HIS FIRST RBSD seminar for instructors. in NY in Aug.2003. (Where he said he was a sgt. in the Army)
I attended BECAUSE of his STATED BACKGROUND and to see his RB materials and training.
I could have cared less about the certification as I was never going to use it to teach his methods any way.
But....
I am sure many others saw it as a shortcut way to start a school and teach without much time training ,such as required in Traditional arts.
I would not have attended if I knew then what I know now about his BS claims.
He offered nothing but Instructor certification,so there was no way to preview the materials.(perhaps this is why it was done that way ?)
You paid top dollar  and then you could teach it to recoup your money.

Let us be honest,if Wagner offered his materials and instruction without the hype and or without the Instructor Certification not many people would be attending.

Wagner had a school and was teaching for MANY YEARS before joining HSS and he had VERY FEW students.
(Why if materials were good and not dependent upon BS hype)
The materials he taught at his school changed little.
The Materials he taught at HSS were not much different,except he now soaked ideas from other HSS Instructors who had good Martial art creds.
He took from Chris,he took from Jeff Clancy, ( Chuck Habernahl and the HSS vet guys ) He took from Dave Dye CMPD, he took from many but he never stayed long under anyone to learn beyond basics materials.

He says "do you think I never learned when I trained with other police and Military units" ?

Well if he learned ,then why did the Materials NEVER change from the start of his days at HSS to Present ?

It is all BS.
« Last Edit: May 06, 2010, 06:11:11 PM by Hock »
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JimH

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #8 on: May 06, 2010, 07:10:28 PM »

Robb,
I saw on your site you posted Wagner's  email to you and excerpts from his web site.

The picture of Wagners sniper students at MOUT is from an HSS event,where Wagner was an Instructor assigned by HSS to teach basic field craft.

Here are the USMC Scout Sniper requirements as of 2002:
Does Wagner's 2 day course look or sound like the 12 week course explained ?
http://www.forum.militaryltd.com/training-schools/m2930-making-marine-scout-sniper.htm

I also believe that the Scout Sniper Certificate shown was MADE UP/Created/Drawn  By Wagner Himself for the course he and the others attended as Wagner made the certificates handed out at HSS Courses. (Wagner was the artist and caligrapher for HSS)
That is why there are NO Signatures,not even one from any of the USMC Instructros he claims who awarded the certificates,lol.

On his documents page
http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/aboutjimwagner/documentation.html
Everything under the military section is HSS ,except Army Basic.
Notice under the Orange County Sheriff Training ,which handled his Corrections and PO academy,he has two weapons listed,(mm and Chemical agent/spray.
No weapons for SWAT.

http://www.jimwagnertraining.com/documentation2.html
Notice under Costa Mesa there are NO SWAT certificates and no certificates of training and or qualifications with weapons for SWAT.
« Last Edit: May 07, 2010, 08:44:58 AM by Hock »
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robbhamic

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #9 on: May 07, 2010, 08:10:35 AM »

Jim,

Thanks for all of the info.  You really have the goods on this guy and I appreciate your time.  I was really trying to make the point that Wagner goes strait from BASIC student to INSTRUCTOR with no development training.   I don't doubt that there was a HSS even at MOUT but Wagner tries to take the credit citing HIS STUDENTS and making captions on pictures.  You would think he had a camera glued to his hand for his whole life.  He is probably taking a picture of himself right now.

I am really trying to point people to the facts and give them Wagner's words, the documents or facts and then the indisputable truth- like the Sniper certificate- compared to the basic fact that you have to be a US Marine to go through their course, which was 10 weeks back in the early 2000's.  His embellishments kill me.  He uses fractions of the truth to sell, sell, sell and make his reputation bigger than a tall building.

It must kill you, having been a Marine and operator who risked your life for many years to have a wannabe like Wagner step on the scene and make money on the backs of so many who gave their lives for the truth.  Thanks for your service.

Respectfully,

Robb Hamic
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JimH

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #10 on: May 07, 2010, 01:49:26 PM »

Robb,
I understand your point and your goal.
I KNOW that Wagner has NO Instructor Certification for anything he teaches,except maybe Kapap from Avi.

Wagner's Instructorship ,he thinks,is from taking and or most times being involved as an assistant to a legit trainer in HSS courses.
He took a course,and or assisted and he believes that alone made/makes him qualified to teach that subject matter.

Look at where he says in his letter to the FAM,that he wanted to attend and EVALUATE the shooting course Fam uses.
He is on the job 6 months and he wants to evaluate the training ?

What skills does he have ,aside from weekend warrior game play at HSS, to evaluate training set up by some of the best INSTRUCTORS in the US Military/US Government ,Police Departments and FAM ?
The Answer is NONE

He has written ,and I have posted before ,on howhe, Wagner, took and assisted on a basic Scuba course.
He then tells how HSS had NO ONE Else to teach a Course on ADVANCED Scuba and they,HSS, asked him and he said he would do it and did.
He represented himself as an advanced diver and taught  the course,and he says when it was over he told the people  and asked them how he had done and No One complained.
This is the type of stuff that have become normal for him,associate or assist and suddenly He is the LEADER and or the INSTRUCTOR .

As you say HE,WAGNER, HAS NO INSTRUCTOR  COURSES AND OR QUALIFICATIONS as a LEGITIMATE Instructor in anything he teaches.
He even says in his writings that doing something is enough to Instruct it as long as you have an Instructors mind set.

My point about Wagner writing "HIS students doing a sniper crawl at MOUT training" was to show that he did it under the HSS banner,as an HSS Instructor,with the only qualification  as having taken or assisted on the course when taught by a legit instructor.

Imagine  a full fledged PHONY claiming to have instructed USMC Snipers,Special Forces,Israeli SF,GSG 9 and other Elite units around the world ?
He presents Thank You for coming letters as if they are representative of his being a part of the unit ?
Some of the Letters to his Orange County Sheriff seem more like,excuse Mr Wagner for not being at work as he was here or there teaching us something,lol.

Imagine  this guy was a CMPO, and he and another officer would drive 45 minutes,(one way) to Camp Pendelton to hang and train with the USMC while ON DUTY.
If they were on Patrol ,who covered their sector ?
If needed how did they respond ?
If both were on SWAT,how were they on call ?
Imagine the people of Costa Mesa Paying for Officers to serve and Protect and they are off playing dress up as Marines ,getting ZERO Qualifications or Training usable as Part of the duties as Police Officers ?
Wagner WAS NOT on SWAT as a shooter so what was his justification for leaving his post and the City Of Costa Mesa to Play with the US Marines ?
Wagner has posted his qualifications as a PO:
Pistol qual
chemical spray qual
Asp Qual
Life saving cert
And the all important Bike Patrol

As far as the Costa Mesa Police department that is ALL he is/was qualified in for their purposes.

My concern for Wagner,Moni and those like them are that they are SUCKING people in with a BS Resume,one that sounds too good to be true and this attracts people looking to associate with them,looking to spend money and Instruct under them and the people spend a lot of good ,hard earned,money and now that it is found that these men BSed everyone,those who spent the money are left holding the now empty bag in regards to return on investment.

I do not like people who sell the heroics of others and claim it as theirs to sell a MARTRIAL ARTS skill,or to sell themselves to make money,when the claims are ALL Pure BS.

Wagners course is basic and he could teach it with out the hype,though without the hype the numbers training and or instructing under him would be very very small.
The same goes for Moni,his skills are good and with out the hype the materials could sell,but not as when associated with a Great military back ground and claims of being an assistant founder,creator and instructor to the Elite of Israeli military.

Keep up the Great work on getting the word out Robb.

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JimH

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2010, 02:51:29 PM »

In an email to Robb 5/7/10 at
Jimwagner.org

Wagner writes the following :
"You find it hard that police departments, military units, and civilians from all over the world come to me for instructions; even Special Forces units. Well, that answer is simple: I have the knowledge people seek. It's that simple. It took a lot of years of hard work. If I am such the "fake" instructor that you say I am, why do units and agencies keep using me? "

People were misled by Wagner's claims,claims that he was allowed to perpetuate thanks to un checking Magazine publishers for Magazines like Black Belt ,Budo and Others.

Let us look at Bob Spour
He sold videos claiming to have been in the SAS
He Ran an SAS Survival School
He was hired to do a National Geographic film on the SAS
He had real members of the SAs as friends.
He was a total Fake,same as Jim Wagner.

Let us look at James Webb
Calimed to have been in special Forces
Claimed to teach H2H to Special Forces
Had an Article in black Belt magazine about his Special forces H2H training
Sold videos of gis SF H2H training
Taught military units his H2H
He was a Fake Never in SF or a Ranger,just like JW.

Let us look at Jerry Peterson
claimed to be a LRRP in Vietnam
Invented/developed SCARS while in Vietnam,which was really the art of Kung fu / San Soo.
He Sold Videos
Had articles in Black Belt Magazine
Taught Police and Military to include SF,USMC Recon and Force Recon and the Navy SEALS as well as others around the world.
He was BS artist
Never a LRRP
He got caught out ,proved to be a liar and is done,same as JW

How about Tim Larkin
Claimed to be a SEAL
Hooked up with Peterson,taught SCARS to the Navy,other US and international Militaries and Police.
Found to be a fake
never a SEAL
was busted and done like Pterson and JW.
Larkin found a couple of guys teaching a form of Martial arts and took them in and now he sells their skills as TFT to Military and Police units as well as civilians.

Those are just a few off the top of my head.

quote JW
"If I am such the "fake" instructor that you say I am, why do units and agencies keep using me? "

Wow JW,I do not know WHY units Keep using you ?
Maybe because like the other Phonies and Fakes listed above ,you had an outlet,of which Black Belt seems to be a common thread,to list your BS resume ,be authenticated to a degree by the Magazine and con people and units to get sucked in to your fake life.

It is all about the perception of training and skill,not the production of authentic training and skill.

The men who stare at goats shows the level people with training ,education and experience will go,and the amount they will pay for BS,and the hope of a possible out come.
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TLE

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #12 on: May 08, 2010, 04:07:39 AM »

I am almost starting to feel sorry for Wagner. He has moved from the controversial to the pathetic.
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jimL

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Re: Wagner owned HSS? And Other Wagner/HSS Whoppers!
« Reply #13 on: May 08, 2010, 06:40:05 PM »


"(Where is that state required, California POST, SWAT school course certificate that all SWAT team members must attend?"

Does he have a California POST Instructor Certificate is anything?  DT, Arrest and Control, baton, firearms? anything?

Ca requires all officers to complete 24 hours of POST approved training every 2 years.  I know many places do none approved POST training for many topics, all good training, but everyone still has to complete 24 hours of POST stuff.

I wonder because if a department had such a "world class" instructor in their own ranks would they not get him set up to use him and it meet the 24 hours needed? would save tons of money.

Jim
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