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W. Hock Hochheim's

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  • December 15, 2018, 07:28:27 PM
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Author Topic: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt  (Read 8292 times)

juszczec

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2009, 06:30:26 AM »

Ok.  Whatever.

A guy gave his pet chimp a black belt so I suppose a 5 year old getting one is a step up?

;-)

Mark

whitewolf

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2009, 07:20:06 AM »

Actually I am proud of the Dad who spends a lot of time with his child so that the youngster is developing into a teen ager who has some goals in life and in all probability,
go  on to a university degree and be productive to them selves and society.

I thought that was one goal of having a child participate in sports?

WW (ELB)
"speed of light"
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Canuk

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2009, 08:03:45 AM »

Actually I am proud of the Dad who spends a lot of time with his child so that the youngster is developing into a teen ager who has some goals in life and in all probability,
go  on to a university degree and be productive to them selves and society.

I thought that was one goal of having a child participate in sports?

WW (ELB)
"speed of light"


Good call WW
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grlaun

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2009, 11:20:52 AM »

Actually I am proud of the Dad who spends a lot of time with his child so that the youngster is developing into a teen ager who has some goals in life and in all probability,
go  on to a university degree and be productive to them selves and society.

I thought that was one goal of having a child participate in sports?

WW (ELB)
"speed of light"


SH*T, Marine! The girl is FIVE!  She's got 8 years to be a teenager... :-X
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Cheat in Beginning - Cheat in the Middle - Cheat in the End
Official Evil Ninja - 2008
Texas Peace Officer 8/2009
"You're making the wrong assumption that a Marine by himself is outnumbered"
Gen Peter Pace, 28Jul06
"You tell that muthaf**ka, he owes me money!"

whitewolf

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2009, 01:47:36 PM »

grlaun-if we do not start the children on the right path at 3-4-5  when they become 15 many are finished......

I observed many children while in the mid east for 6  years-all ethnic  groups-vast
majority are polite,smart, and very few cry a lot-they wear uniforms to school-go to a church-have a curfew by their parents-and when out in a public resturant act normal.....

take a look in walmart these days-its a fooking disaster

just MHO-WW (ELB)
"speed of light"
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grlaun

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2009, 02:37:41 PM »

true that
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Cheat in Beginning - Cheat in the Middle - Cheat in the End
Official Evil Ninja - 2008
Texas Peace Officer 8/2009
"You're making the wrong assumption that a Marine by himself is outnumbered"
Gen Peter Pace, 28Jul06
"You tell that muthaf**ka, he owes me money!"

Hock

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2009, 02:46:22 PM »

Call them...

"Baby Black"
"Teeny Black"
"Tweeny black"
"Child Black"
"Toddler Black"

Some kind of designation that doesn't make the real-deal, true old masters twist, turn and gag in the graves...

When I started in Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate...kids couldn't even look in the school window.

Hock

Benjamin Liu

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2009, 03:19:14 PM »

IMO it is very good for kids to train in martial arts. 

I disagree with them getting black belts.  Often the standards are severely lowered, but even if they need to learn the same techniques as adults, IMO earning a black belt is more than just knowing X number of techniques, or even doing them well.

I'm not sure what the best way to run a kid's class would be, but they could come up with 10+ belts of other colors, especially since kids need symbols of accomplishment more than adults. 

Another idea, one I came up with as a joke in the early 1990s, was to have merit badges like in Boy Scouts.  Now some schools actually do that.  In Boy Scouts there are 7 ranks ranging from Scout to Eagle, each signified by a patch, and each requires a certian number of required and elective merit badges, community service, and other requirments.  Scouts have up to 7 years to earn the Eagle rank.  Before Scouts there are various types of Cub Scouts for the younger kids with similar badges.  They don't run out of badges and ranks to earn, and usually only get bored when the Scoutmasters run boring meetings.  Maybe a structure like this could work.
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whitewolf

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2009, 04:11:06 PM »


ben- also good thoughts- WW (ELB) "speed of light"
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Milldog1776

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2009, 06:27:34 PM »

Call them...

"Baby Black"
"Teeny Black"
"Tweeny black"
"Child Black"
"Toddler Black"

Some kind of designation that doesn't make the real-deal, true old masters twist, turn and gag in the graves...

When I started in Ed Parkers Kenpo Karate...kids couldn't even look in the school window.

Hock

All of those schools are closed now. Think about that.
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Hock

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #11 on: October 13, 2009, 07:15:49 PM »

And look at how the hard core, tough, mean "Cross Fit" are now realizing they might need a few kids programs to pay the electric bill.

But, not all of "them" (martial schools) without kids are ALL out of business. I just left a Japanese MA school with about 30 adults. No kids. Think of all the MMA schools and Krav schools that have zero kids. Think about it. It depends on where you are, and what you are doing, good luck and bad luck. Fads. 

Why does one convienence store on one street corner stay open and right across the street another closes? Could it be the bad shade of green paint on the front? Traffic flow at rush hours? So many variables that may have absolutely nothing to do with a good, training program.

I always think of my old friend in San Francisco who tried and tried to run a school there, and failed. Then moved to Wyoming and opened two schools in one year. Adults. Same business plan. Different place.

The survivors? Some have kids to pay the bills. But, many of the survivors have instituted a plausable, somewhat understandable, acceptable "kids name" for a Black Belt. So that both they and their parents and outsiders understand there is a difference between adults and little kids. I think quite a number of schools use the term "Junior Black Belt." I get that idea. Or call them...

   "Baby Black"
   "Teeny Black"
   "Tweeny black"
   "Child Black"
   "Toddler Black"
   "Kiddie Black"
   "Junior Black"

As for me, I cannot teach kids. I am a sorry example of a human being. Detached. I drink. I cuss. and I cheat. My definition of God comes from a Star Trek episode. I can't build and raise good little citizens. I am too inept and wouldn't even know where to start. So I am prejudiced on the subject.

I also come from a school of thought that Karate is not a sport, it was something far more violent and serious, and therefore the whole kid/sport connection thing to me? Personally, I find mysterious and annoying. Wrestling? Boxing? Fine. But watering down ass-kicking karate to safe, "no face-punch" and such rules, destroys the whole point. All you "young-ens' have grown up brainwashed in mixed age environment.

I understand that everybody just needs to survive in their business. Don't just call them a generic "Black Belt." A 5 year-old cannot and should not be a black belt. To me its a joke. To others a real insult. Its like...like saying a

                         5 year-old passed Marine Boot Camp/Basic training.

Its like...an utterly impossible achievement for a 5 year-old. Or a ten-year old. But, they might instead pass a..."Junior Boot Camp!" program!  An age-appropriate, watered down for kids. Thats fine. Thats the point.

So anyway, that begs the next question. The next question is...what is a good general age for someone to qualify for the title? 14? 16? 18? Probably all of us have met a crazy 13 year old that is big for their age and just awesome.

Hock
 
« Last Edit: October 14, 2009, 02:24:05 PM by Hock »
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jmech

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #12 on: October 13, 2009, 08:32:51 PM »

When I started in TKD at the age of 11 (many, many moons ago), anyone under 16 was only eligible for a "Junior Black Belt".  When they turned 16, they had to retake the entire black belt test, with additional material excluded from the under 16 test, in order to remain/become a black belt.

And since my little girl just turned 5 today, I think I can safely say I would never consider calling her a black belt.  Even though she pops armbars on me when we are wrestling around :) she is just going to begin her martial arts programming-let the experiment begin! (evil laughter, evil laughter, evil laughter)

Joe
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The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

Brian S

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #13 on: October 17, 2009, 03:38:01 AM »

My youngest does Judo under the British Judo Council (smaller and more traditional than the dominant British Judo Association over here).

The highest grade they can get below 16 is a green belt with 3 black tabs.  From the age of 16 they are then eligible to rise normally and, of course, those young people can be quite fit and strong by that age, so they can progress to black fairly quickly.

Even at 12 (and younger) they slam each other about and train as hard as anyone.  No waving cutey girlei arms and legs around in Kata etc.  It's tough!

5 year old black belts?  Merely a small part of the dilution of the art for financial gain, leading to the majority of the world's Karate now being useless in a real go.
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whitewolf

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #14 on: October 17, 2009, 08:51:08 AM »

I have met Mr Hock twice-and have seen a understanding ,normal, no cussing, perfect gentleman at all  times- right?

Go getum Hock :-X

WW (ELB)

"speed of light"
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juszczec

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2009, 11:19:01 AM »

Hock

FWIW, my 13 year old son and I just came back from the Romeoville seminar.

I've been to two of your seminars and wouldn't have brought my kid if I thought you'd be some kind of negative influence.  

So you drink and swear?  So do I.  If that's a sin then you, me and whole lot of other people are gonna keep each other company in the afterlife.

You've also served your country in the military and have spent your time helping and protecting people from themselves and each other.  You've done this as an MP, as a law enforcement officer and a teacher.

As far as a black belt goes - I used to get mad about this, but its wasted energy I could use in my training and teaching.  There has been rampant rank inflation in the US for a long long time and I ain't telling you anything you don't already know.  The black belt has become devalued.  If someone wants to give one to a child or a fire hydrant, ok, I'm gonna go hit the bag and spar with my students.

And, if the world is big enough for people WITHOUT black belts who know how to fight, then the world is big enough for people WITH black belts who can't fight.  

No, it ain't right but I can fix very little of what ain't right in the world.

BTW, my kid started talking about "next year" on the drive home.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2009, 01:18:40 PM by juszczec »
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haze

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #16 on: October 23, 2009, 10:22:06 AM »

We do a pee-wee black belt  (11 and under) jr BB (12-15) BB at 16.

The article clearly sattes how and why she got a BB

 "To gain her black belt, Varsha had to learn up to 15 katas.

Varsha can punch, kick and wield different weapons: the Chinese stick, which is almost as big as she is, and a nunchaku, two short sticks connected by a metal chain.

Her karate is a feat of memory and technique more than agility and power."

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David

whitewolf

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #17 on: October 23, 2009, 11:04:44 AM »

Haze- good for you-i agree that BB for kids (Peewee or not if earned is great for them)
You should get a window sticker -My kid is a peewee black belt-just as good as "my stuent is a A student"

In  todays kids world if we dont take care of them they may go over the deep end.-I read a article awhile ago that says the sub teens today have their own world and we are not part of it..

Thats why my grandson-  is enrolled in Judo-He is 6 an is starting to throw all ready-their is a 3 1/2 year old in the small kids class.

stay safe- WW (ELB) "speed of light"
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tva448

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2009, 11:36:02 PM »

All this discussion about kids with black belts begs the question: Anyone know an adult with an ill deserved "black belt"?
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Violence Rules the Day

whitewolf

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Re: 5 Year-Old Gets Black belt
« Reply #19 on: November 18, 2009, 01:16:24 AM »

sure do- many have a black belt but thats the way of some schools-WW (ELB)
"speed of light"
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