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[Adventure]

Was Sinawalli ever really use for combat OR was it just a drill?

[Kaliman33]

think about this, what about swinging two sticks at someone does'nt work? Dont forget most martial arts first focus on power, stretching, etc, the filipino martial arts is all about coordination first. without it you cant do anything. that is why you need drills. you need drills to do anything. I am trying to learn to play guitar, guess what. My instructor gives me drills every time.
Now granted having two sticks handy might not always be practical, but how could it not work in combat?

Marc

[whitewolf]

Kali-first how many people carry 2 sticks out in public??Learn to use one club/stick/baton- save the 2 sticks for demos--JMHO-WW

[Professor]

We are taught to fight with two hands.  Jab, cross.

 Train with two hands.   

Siniwalli for fighting, yes. 

I fight better with two hands, sticks, knives.

Two handguns, not so much....Rifle and pistol....sweet.

[Hock]

Were two sticks every REALLY used in actual combat...?

Considering that the cane/stick was mostly a training tool/substitute for the bolo (machet), I would say that few if any Filipinos acutakky went into any combat while holding just two sticks. They would likely be facing one or two swords or one or two of the numerous bolos we so often see.

If anyone knows of any actual historical incidents of such, it would be interesting to note.

Hock
( Musashi used a wooden boken against steel katanas!)

[Kaliman33]

I did'nt say anyone carries two sticks, i dont. all i said was that using two sticks in combat would work if you had them, I can do the six count in about 1 -1/1/2 seconds what about that would not work? i would love to be attacked and have two sticks.

i didnt say it was practical, all i said was it will work. and by the way we spar double stick at my school, it is a ball

Marc

[whitewolf]

Mark-glad you can do that-what i was thinking was -when walking on the street and swinging 2 sticks around might get some to look at one funny.    WW

[Canuk]

I once tried to sell a kinfe defense course to a TKD club. The guy stated that the only knife training defense they teach was with single stick or double stick. I asked him what he would do he threatned/attacked with a knife, he said that he would use his sticks, I asked him what he would do if he didnt have any sticks. He looked at me as if i had two heads and replied that he would just pick up a stick lying on the street. Needless to say, I didnt make the sale but as i walked back to my car I dint see ANY sticks either

[whitewolf]

Morning canuk- that was priceless-guess you were talking to a true martial artist (in his own mind- )

WW

[noload]

I have friends who told me "I'd just pick up a stick". Funny how none of them ever could find a "stick on the street". Some did have enough wits to notice a car antennae looked like a stick, though these days they don't break off like the old ones did.
What I don't understand is how a lot of people who train with sticks can't just take the concept of "hitting certain targets on the human body with something hard" from their training. It's sure a lot easier finding something hard to use as a weapon rather than always trying to find a stick.
 

[Hock]

I think the question  was  "was it ever used in combat" as in actual, historical, Filipino combat for it to be so popular with Filipino MA.

Could it (and dozens of other things) be used? Sure.

Hock

[Adventure]

I think the question  was  "was it ever used in combat" as in actual, historical, Filipino combat for it to be so popular with Filipino MA.

Could it (and dozens of other things) be used? Sure.

Hock

YES

[redcap]

I prefer one stick but train two for the coordination they engender. There are historical references of Filipinosa armed with two sticks as well as bolos. In the Balangiga Massecre (Samar) the locals used bolos smuggled into town hidden in the coffins of dead babies but several of the Insurrectos also used double sticks, I believe they were Kamagong and more flat shaped than round in cross section. I interviewed several old guys there who had relatives who had fought in the battle and one swore his great uncle had used two sticks.

Pigafetta's account of the Battle of Mactan refers to the natives using fire hardened sticks of spear length but also two sticks of shorter length. Most translations of his account of the voyage of Magellan don;t mention this but I have read one that said this openly. I am in the provinces and don't have access to my hard drive with the references or my Balangiga article but when I return I am happy to hunt for them for the dubious.

Having said all that, I think the actual use of two sticks is minor. Most would use a blade and there are plenty of blades here, always have been. I nearly bought a striking Sandung in the Bogo market for three bucks the other day but I already have several and how many can you use at one time anyway?

As for the old car aerial trick, have you ev er tried to rip one off in a hurry while some clown is wailing away at you? So you have an aerial, oooh, I'm scared! I was once attacked with a CB antenna which was far more whippy but I took it off him and threw it away, not worth using. Where I live there are always local newspapers lying around uncollected, they make a far more effective weapon than a car aerial.
Redcap

[Joe Hubbard]

It is also important to add that double stick training develops the “live hand” for single stick work.  The number of people training with weapons that employ that “dead fish hand” is prolific.  Even some systems recommend keeping the “live hand” hanging while they wield their weapons- not tactically sound.   It is important that the “live hand” is active in the window of combat- engaging.  As Hock once said about Remy, “He just can’t wait to stick those (live hand) fingers in your eyes!”  Remy's "live hand" was head hungry!

Joe

[Crafty]

Stick is a training aid http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinawali good question

[GermMaster]

I have friends who told me "I'd just pick up a stick". Funny how none of them ever could find a "stick on the street". Some did have enough wits to notice a car antennae looked like a stick, though these days they don't break off like the old ones did.
What I don't understand is how a lot of people who train with sticks can't just take the concept of "hitting certain targets on the human body with something hard" from their training. It's sure a lot easier finding something hard to use as a weapon rather than always trying to find a stick.
 

I agree.  I'm trying to think when was the last time I saw a stick on the street.  I couldn't remember any.  I do remember when I was a kid I used to play with a car antennae using it like a fencing sword.  I don't think it would be an effective weapon with the way it wobbles.  You're better of with an umbrella.

[redcap]

The other day I broke a long stick while whacking the tyres and without thinking flowed into a siniwalli pattern. Perhaps a similare vent has happened in history where a fighter with a spear had it broken or cut in two and then went into the double stick routine?

As for sticks lying around the street, there are plenty where I live as we have a lot of trees but as soon as you get near the shops or the mall, the trees and the sticks tend to hide.
Redcap

[Southpaw]

As for siniwali being used in actual combat historically, I do not know. However, it is a good drill to use to build coordination in both hands. One can never guarantee what will transpire in actual combat.

You can't guarantee which hand the stick will end up in- you can't guarantee your "good" arm/hand etc. will be able to hold a stick, or anything else for that matter, so it behooves one to learn to use both hands.

As for sticks being out in the world- funny you should mention this. I was talking to a training partner the other day about this. If you look around, they are present quite often. Some examples-

I was in the gym, and noticed various barbells without weights on them, and then handles for various machines, like the lat pulldown bar, and the tricep extension bar just laying on the floor near the machines.

On the street, I've seen 2X4's, lengths of rebar, broom/mop handles, rakes, shovels, pipes, fence posts, various signs stuck in the ground, pieces of furniture, and the list goes on. This isn't pie in the sky either- these are things I see often.

Inside in various places, like restaurants, nightclubs, schools, and other businesses, you'll see- pool cues, mops, brooms, signposts, various poles used to hold up velvet ropes or chains, handrails, chair and table legs, and the list goes on. Don't forget, things can get smashed/broken during a fight, and then things you never thought of could become available, especially during a riot/brawl. Why not use them if it's appropriate? Hell, break a chair or something if your life depends on it. Especially break it on the opponent!

Don't tell me there are no sticks around. There are objects everywhere if you really look.