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Author Topic: BJJ Lies  (Read 9628 times)

Sargeslide

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BJJ Lies
« on: March 05, 2011, 09:31:21 AM »

I'll just post from my blog on this one:

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Lies

my knowledge of self defence

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hey i know alot about self defence and place’s in the human body you could attack.
there are the vital pressure points which are the ear, nose, thout, groin, and the arteries in the neck. i know alot about the principel’s of joint locking and choke application’s like for example if the grabed you on the shoulder you could distract them with a palm strike to the face and then grab the wrist and twist it toward’s their body and then their bodies reaction would be to drop to the ground. i know alot of defensive technique’s like defence from a haymaker, choke from behind, front choke with both hands, headlock, and many more. i also know some follow up strikes which i could use for attack’s to distract them so they could give me a joint i could minipulate easly. i know this because of my 1yr of training in brazilian jiu jitsu which i heard was one of the most effective forms of self defence in the world. i am an orange belt in jiu jitsu not japanease jiu jitsu but the brazilian jiu jitsu. if yall have anything to say about my knowledge of self defence then you can post anything you would like for me to discuss.
This is a real statement from a MA forum, from a guy who has a year in BJJ.
 
 
Dear Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu (BJJ) Masters, Experts and Practitioners:

What I am writing here is not to insult, downplay, or question the validity of BJJ as a Sport Fighting Art. It is great for the ring, and refereed matches.

What I am  writing is in disagreement with one aspect of what you do, telling everyone that your art is the ultimate “On the street” (way over used by your instructors and practitioners) self defense.

It will, if it hasn’t already, will get someone seriously injured or killed. It is time the Bullshit flag was raised on the unknowing public’s behalf.

And that is that your art has nothing to do with real self defense, but is a marketing campaign to suck money out of pockets that you would otherwise have to let pass by.

I would probably respect you more if you were truthful about it, but then the flow of cash would run dry, and you wouldn’t be considered the Brazilian version of the Trump family.

I have been told many times that 80% of all fights go to the ground. I have never seen the hard data on this though. If this is true, it’s  probably the result of the two combatants not knowing what they are doing. Or not realizing that it is so very dangerous. Does it count if I hit you and you go to the ground because of it?

Your Instructors continually pound this, and other lies about how superior your art is to all other instruction, even the Gracie family has to know this is an out and out untruth.

Can you win a street fight by going to the ground? YES!, you can get lucky, however you will pay dearly for it in the absolute best of circumstances. A BJJ player is not a street fighter.

What we are really talking about is odds. With what I and others have seen in classes and students of BJJ, you are decreasing their odds of survival significantly! You are doing a serious disservice to anyone that takes your class if you tell them that BJJ is a street worthy self defense. But hey, all that badass BJJ gear sure looks good on them, heck, maybe the family will like it so much that the people you are teaching can be buried in it!

We are not saying that what we teach is better, but it is geared toward reality, awareness, inflicting serious damage quickly, in a street fight or survival situation

What many of us have learned in many years of studying various Martial Arts, and Reality Based Self Defense (RBSD) systems, is that going to the ground in a street fight of any type is the last thing you want to do. Be prepared for it, learn to fight from there, but don’t willingly go, or take your opponent there.

My Instructor (whose name I will not state because this has nothing to do with him), is a Golden Gloves Boxer, and has Black Belts in Aiki Juijitsu, Kempo, Filipino stick and knife arts, Aikdo, Judo, Tae Kwon Do, Taijutsu, Koryu, and was awarded a purple belt from Saulo. He could get a black belt, he just didn’t want to pay the $3000 cover charge. He has been learning and teaching fighting for over 40 years, with the pioneers of the afore mentioned arts in America. He will tell you “Don’t take a man to the ground, beat him into it”

In reality, BJJ is a derivative of Judo, anyone that tries to tell you different is a liar. BJJ’s history is well documented. Helio Gracie adapted it and then modified it to his use and abilities, and he was an excellent fighter. But when it all comes down to it, BJJ is only used to subdue someone until the opponent yells “Uncle”. A choke is a choke, and an armbar is an armbar, no matter how you get there.

Once that has happened, everyone is allowed to get up and walk away. Or they can go at it again until someone taps out, but make no mistake, you will usually walk away. BJJ is a subduing art, like Judo, and Aikido, not a killing art. And again, there is nothing wrong with that, until you use it “On the street”

Fighting for points or submission in the arena is fine. In the real world, fighting for your life is a different story, if you win, you live; that’s it, no trophies, no one screaming your name, no interviews to be shown on the Jumbotron, no pretty girls hanging on you. No one calling you a badass, all you get is your life. Puts MMA and BJJ in a different light when you look at it like that, don’t it?

“Randori” or “Kumite” is practiced in Japan, and Okinawa. It means “Chaos Taking” or “Multiple Attackers” and is a free form style of practicing grappling, striking or using weapons, usually against multiple attackers and is used in Jiu-jitsu, Judo, Aikido, Iaido, Kempo, and many others. It is called “Matsogi” in Korea and it is also used in Chinese arts like San Shou, or Tai Chi, but is simply known as “Sparring” The Gracie clan did not invent this, as it has been written, it has been going on for hundreds of years all over the world. Oh yeah, the Greeks did it in the Olympics a few thousand years ago, it was and is called “Pankration”, which is also the name of their martial art.

Now, let’s look at what a street fight is, and what really happens.

Street fights start in a standing position, period.  Either you weren’t smart enough de-escalate, avoid or escape the situation, or because you weren’t aware of what was happening. You allowed the interview to escalate(That’s right, I said to avoid the confrontation)

Add to that, that usually it will be one against multiple attackers (people are pack animals), any of which could have a weapon; that you will not see until it is used on you; anybody, even untrained people see that shooting for a single leg or even contemplating going to the ground would be foolish at best, deadly in any other case.

One other thing to add: If anybody has a knife in their hand, trained or untrained, in my eyes they become a 10th degree master and I treat them that way!

 Street fights tend to be over in seconds, not minutes, and they are all out brawls, that which tend to be won by the person who got the best, most damaging shot in first. It is not a chess match to be thought out and then applied to what you think your opponent’s weakness’s are. MMA and BJJ fighters have weeks if not months to study their opponent.

You may never even see your attacker’s face until court proceedings, if you survived the attack.

(By the way, I am not lumping MMA fighters in with BJJ players. MMA people have figured out over time that you have to be very good at hand to hand fighting. They work hard learning to hit, and take hits, and will probably tear you up “on the street”. Boxing, Kempo, and Muay Thai are generally the favored striking arts in their profession.)

Now, add to that what BJJ players are taught: BJJ is the ultimate self defense; taking someone to the ground in any situation will win the fight, any fight. No other art can come close. On top of all the macho posturing and bullshit BJJ players tend to spout that is exactly opposite what you are taught to do in self defense. 

I saw the news and video that you are teaching this to children now. It is at great peril and it’s irresponsible to them and their parents, who are getting ripped off and brainwashed into believing that BJJ is teaching them how to be safe and responsible when in reality, you teach your older students to be narrow minded bullies, who will fight at the drop of a hat. Those two things do not match up.

As I write this essay, I realize that you may wonder what my qualifications are to make these statements. Street fighting in Detroit as a dumb kid, Aiki-Jiu-Jitsu Black Belt, knife and stick fighting, weapons and H2H training in the military, Boxing and studying fighting arts for the last 32 years. I have taught self defense for 16 years, and developed curriculums for females and children. And while I have done all of this, I am by no means an “expert”, I am still learning, training and making what I do better, I am still a student.

Now while I am not an expert at BJJ, but I am pretty good at countering it, as are the other contributors to this essay. Let me give you an idea of what I know about real world fighting and using a sport against it.

First, I practice awareness, and pay attention to detail. Plus, I will not allow myself to lower my standards or character to be goaded into a fight over name calling. So, I would have to be ambushed. But for this instance I am going to be stupid. Let’s put this is into perspective:

We are outside, we we’re in a bar and we had words, I left but you followed me into the parking lot, continuing to verbally challenge me by calling me a pussy, or whatever you want to insert there to insult me. The parking lot is typical, dimly lit with an asphalt type base.

I turn to face you, and let you know I am as stupid as you are, because I have chosen to stand and fight instead of leave. “I am a Brazilian Black Belt” you yell “And I’ll kick your pussy ass” you add. The aggressiveness you have had drilled into you, has given me an advantage, I now know what you know. I know that because of your training, you will want to take me to the ground, where you will try to choke me out, or armbar me or something.

My only response to you is “bring it bitch” and I assume a fighting stance. What I don’t let you know is, I am also well trained, and I have a Gerber multi-tool clipped to my belt that I use like a Kubota, and I am very good at it. You don’t see it, the parking lot is dimly lit. I know fighting and fighters, we all “run to momma” when we are fighting, in other words, we do what we have been trained to do the longest, and we are most comfortable with, and in BJJ, it is shooting for a leg takedown.

You take a typical crouched stance and slowly advance on me. I will move in circular motions around you, waiting for you to make your move. I will watch to see if you are as aggressive as you are loud. I may even bait you by leaving a leg just a little more forward. As you lower your head to find your target, I move my hand to my side. You’re so locked on you don’t even hear the click of the pliers moving forward from the handle.

You make your move, and so do I, driving my metal multi-tool into your head as I sprawl, driving you into the ground. I place a hand on your head, and drive three good knee shots to your head, you’re done. On top of the damage I have inflicted, the ground has messed up your hands, knees, and face. I stand up look around and split, leaving you there to be found.

You brought hands to a knife fight, and didn’t even know it. It actually didn’t have to be a knife, It could have easily been a knee to the face (I practice that a lot), a strike to the head, a total body sprawl, using all 220 pounds of me, to slam you into the concrete or asphalt. Or maybe a head rip, twisting your neck as hard as I can as we go down.

Or, you could have gotten the drop on me, maybe you were faster than I anticipated and we rolled back onto the ground. As you try to mount me, I drive my fingers into your eyes, I give you a palm strike to the nose, and then roll with you, yes, I know those tricks too, go with the motions, whichever way you are trying to go, I will help you. Maybe I drive my knee into your crotch, not once, because if I have a way to do it, I will hit you six, maybe seven times, crushing your testicles. I will slap, punch, kick, bite, scratch, break, or otherwise damage anything I can to win. I do not follow any rules; this is a street fight, there are none and I don’t care about you.

Pray nothing is within reach, because I will use it to win, a rock, a straw, a pebble, I will hurt you with it, I practice it.

Do you practice taking hits? I do. I also practice getting out of the way of them. You really don’t want to go toe to toe with me, I know how to hit you very hard from angles you can’t even imagine. I know how to use the “one inch punch”, I know where all your soft targets are in your whole body. I know how to use my forearms like a bladed weapon, and you would rather take a punch, than an elbow strike from me. I am very good with my knees, and I can destroy your lower body and legs with kicks.

You better pray I don’t have a stick in my hand, even a small one, because it is as deadly in my hands as a knife. I grew up street fighting, I have a high threshold for pain, and I can really pour on the damage if I have to.

As I write this, I am sitting because of doctors orders. I took a fall on ice, a chance in winter and I tore my rotator cuff and quadraceips on my right side, I taught Self Defense and put in a full work day afterward, before I saw the doctor. I also once walked on a broken ankle for 6 weeks before I could see a doctor, but that’s a different story.

Let’s pick a different scenario: I walked out of the bar and you followed me out, as I left I sent a text to a buddy, who lives not far from here. And as we were busy squaring off, he pulled into the parking lot. He brought a baseball bat. You took me down and were doing pretty good, then the lights went out, he took a full swing at your head and connected with it. I saw it and even held you up for a second. It cost you your life. We may get caught by the police, but what does it matter, your dead.

I know these are in my favor, I could have written a dozen more, easily, but it all comes out the same. I am not sure that someone could write an honest counter to these.

 I have a buddy, who has never taken a MA lesson in his life. I would never want to take him on, all he has ever done is street fight. He has never lost to anyone, ever. He has commitment, and he likes to fight. How do you think a BJJ player would do against him? I also have a friend who is a Salo Black Belt. He is a beast, but he also has boxing and Aiki- Jiu-Jitsu in his bag.

I guess the biggest difference between BJJ and RBSD is; BJJ teaches you how to compete against your opponent. RBSD teaches you how to survive. It is a huge difference, and it is time that everyone knows it.

Again, if you are a BJJ player, good for you, keep going, get your Black Belt. But don’t expect it to save your ass on the real world. You’re not Alice, this isn’t Wonderland, and you will get your ass handed to you, if you are lucky enough to survive.

I and the other contributors to this essay know this is going to piss a lot of people off. Oh well, it is the truth and I am tired of all the crap that BJJ players are taught and expected to pass on to others. BJJ is a awesome competition art, as is Judo,  Tae Kwon Do, Japanese JJ, Wrestling and many others. The only time it could be considered self defense I guess is if you are going against a total idiot. But then you may be considered the aggresor when the cops show up. Also if you let anyone know you were trained in BJJ (which you will), the cops will automatically think you were looking for a fight, you have that rep.

This is something that had to be said. We tried very hard to not insult anyone, just state facts, and obvious deficiencies in BJJ as a Self Defense System.

If you have anything to add, please feel free to contact us, we love well thought out, logical, intelligent discussions on the subject. Seriously, we do.

If you are just going to be another one of the thousands who are brainwashed into defending BJJ as a Self Defense, and you’re going to just call us assholes or something of that ilk, don’t bother, we know what we are, and you probably won’t change our minds with your witty repartee.

Please don’t be stupid enough to challenge us to a fight, the guy that wrote this is the lightweight of the group. Besides, we really aren’t interested in giving you our house, car, and other things we worked hard for, because you cannot accept facts.

One more thing, stop looking at You Tube and other video sites to reinforce your image as a BJJ player. Getting a “Kung Fu” Master to come to my dojo, then ringing the mat with my people, and then telling him he cannot do what he does, so that I can “Toy” with him before I take him down is a blatant setup.

If we are to get together, I am doing what I do best, at a neutral site, and you’re going to have to deal with it. What I like best is Knife Fighting.  Any Takers?

I
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I would rather people think me an idiot, than open my mouth and remove all doubt

Sargeslide

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BJJ Lies
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2011, 09:33:32 AM »

I know what I posted will piss folks off, and really it is not meant too. It is however very true. But I'll let the BJJ'ers on the site rip me up like they do on other forums.

I did not write this to be a troll or to get banned, I'm just tired of all the BS surrounding BJJ

Sarge
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I would rather people think me an idiot, than open my mouth and remove all doubt

JimH

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BJJ Lies
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2011, 06:18:12 PM »

I agree with the writer and all of what was said in the post.
Most of it sounds like stuff I write or say and tell the people I train with,lol.

If you want the truth of Brazilian Judo as taught ny the gracies read
"The toughest man who ever lived"
The life of Maeda,the man who taught Carlson Gracie for 1 year and how the Gracie's were told they were not supposed to teach the art,promised they would not and did anyway,leaving Maeda and Judo out of the  real  history of what they do,until recent times when forced to acknowledge him.
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Joe Hubbard

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #3 on: March 08, 2011, 06:53:07 AM »

http://www.budovideos.com/shop/customer/product.php?productid=26072

Thanks for that Jim, that looks like an interesting read.

Joe
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Gurnard

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #4 on: March 08, 2011, 07:44:47 PM »

I don't post here much and don't really know the background for the anti-bjj hostility but this one got my attention (I am a non-delusional bjj guy that also trains in other arts).

The original statement from the 1 year bjj master is apparently from a 16yo autistic child that also claims to train 7 minutes per day in kickboxing.

Unless you're trolling, or trolling a troll.  If that's the case ya got me hook, line and sinker.
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Benjamin Liu

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #5 on: March 08, 2011, 08:32:43 PM »

I have been told many times that 80% of all fights go to the ground. I have never seen the hard data on this though.

The source of this creative use of statistics is discussed here:

http://hockscombatforum.com/index.php/topic,3909.0.html

I hear the claims of 90%, 95% and from some posters 100% more than the older 80% claims.

He could get a black belt, he just didn’t want to pay the $3000 cover charge.

$3,000.00 for a ranking fee?
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Mick Coup

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #6 on: March 28, 2014, 02:42:32 AM »

Interesting?

I suppose that's one word you could use...

Mick

MilMak

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #7 on: May 05, 2014, 01:50:41 PM »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltBSoh6wuwU

Why not teach pupils to lock the doors and drive?

Are you 100% sure there's no weapon? Why follow him to the ground?

Are you fitting the situation to your training or training for the situation?

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Karl

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2014, 12:57:52 AM »

It takes 4 years for Blue belt in BJJ, that's 4 to 6 days a week.
So 1 year is Yellow belt.

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SabreActual

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Re: BJJ Lies
« Reply #9 on: May 23, 2014, 08:00:41 AM »

From Rickson Gracie interview, Full Contact, December 1994 - reference fighting mulitiple attackers (not ring opponents) and real deal street fighting -

Bear in mind even in 1994, Rickson identified himself as a free fighting.

When asked if he promotes GJJ over all other arts and styles his short response was "No, that would be foolish...the goal is to be  a well rounded martial artist, especially when you are talking about real self-defense."

"You must be fast and confident of your abilities and not hold anything back to be successful.  Understand, in the Ultimate Challenge, my brother [Royce Gracie] needs to use only the most simple, the most basic Gracie techiques to defeat his opponents.  This is because no one really ha the ground-fighting knowledge and skill to seriously challenge him.  Royce is nice, he does not want to hurt anyone, so he plays with them until they get tired then he finishes it.

"In reality, if a Gracie fighter is fighting for his life, he will use those advanced techniques that will quickly make an opponent injured so he cannot any longer attack.  He will not choke someone out as much as break their arms, for example.  When you fight many opponents at once, you cannot be merciful like we are at the Ultimate Challange."

Perhaps a bit of historical balance for the record.
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