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Author Topic: Moshe Katz  (Read 28962 times)

Flatfoot6568

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Moshe Katz
« on: March 09, 2011, 11:17:14 AM »

Moshe Katz, according to many in Israel and those who know him, is nothing more than a fraud. He comes across as a very spiritual krav maga teacher, but in fact he is just another former karate teacher who jumped on the "krav bandwagon", created his own organization in order to make some money. He gives out instructor certificates for $100 a pop to those who have attended a single seminar. He is strickly in this for the money, pure and simple. And don't even get me started on his relationships with his instructors wives!

Forwarned is forearmed.
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Flatfoot6568

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #1 on: March 09, 2011, 12:50:41 PM »

To clarify on the above post, here is the message that was sent to the members of the Israeli Krav International. There was no malice intended in this message. It was just to inform the members of what occurred and hope that it would never happen to anyone else. I had nothing to gain from this and everything to lose. I have been removed from the Instructors list of the IKI and banned from receiving anything else from the organization, even though my dues are current and I have two instructor certificates signed by Moshe Katz.

I hope this gives a heads up to any potential members/followers of this guy. More correspondence will follow.

To the IKI Members,
 
Some of you may know me and some of you I consider friends.
 
I want to state before anything else, that I considered Moshe Katz a good friend and mentor. I enjoyed being a member of the IKI and I felt a family atmosphere unlike any other organization, apart from the Police Department. It really is something unique in the world of martial arts.
 
The reason I am writing this is to inform all of you of my departure from the organization.
 
Over a week ago, my father passed away. Pretty sad indeed. He was my best friend and someone I always looked up to. I will miss him. The day after my father passed away, we were scheduled to host a two day seminar with Moshe. I felt that even though I was in the midst of family turmoil, I needed to press on and present the seminar, We had numerous IKI members from all over the country attending. So we continued on with the seminar, as Dad would have wanted me to continue with my work.
 
Moshe arrived and gave me his condolences. Six hours later, he was having an affair with my wife in the hotel I paid for. Pretty bad timing. Now, I know that there are two-way streets and I hold my wife responsible for many things. That is between her and I. But, as the head of an International Organization, who profounds himself as a man of religion, morals and ethics, I find this behavior to be reprehensible, disgusting and unforgivable. Especially the day after one of your instructors parents passed away. After denying it, Moshe finally apologized. Little does he know what he did to three small children and an entire family and school. The damage my be permanent. It appears that he had been pursuing this for some time, without my knowledge. I discovered the emails from him to my wife after the fact.
 
I have thought on this matter and was finally told by a friend of the organization to tell my fellow members. Moshe has already said that I am delusional, but I have the emails. If anyone needs clarification, please feel free to contact me.
 
I know many of you have a vested interest in the IKI and I support you all for that. It is a great system. But take it from me, do not follow anyone blindly.
 
I could say more, but I will not let my anger get the better of me. I wish you all the best of luck and continued success.
 
« Last Edit: March 10, 2011, 07:54:21 AM by Flatfoot6568 »
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whitewolf

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2011, 07:35:02 PM »

Thank u Kent- I wanted say essentially the same but held back-I will say if it was me I would not throw my private family matters out to the world---if all this is true then dump her and keep on going......if it is BS--its BS- WW
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Keith Miller

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #3 on: March 10, 2011, 02:56:19 PM »

Never heard of 'em.
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TLE

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #4 on: March 10, 2011, 07:47:35 PM »

Pretty bizzare post. I know the guy must be hurting, but, ,man......
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SileyEric

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #5 on: March 11, 2011, 08:50:52 PM »

I had never heard the name of Moshe Katz in Krav Maga. I have no idea if he is legit or not. As a school owner, I'd be ashamed to send an email stating that a guy I was doing business with is banging my wife.  What is anyone supposed to do about it? It's really more of a gossip rag piece than a faker. If there are some facts about this guy advertising himself as something he's not, put them up.

I've never heard of him in Krav circles.  I'd think this would be a private personal and business matter.
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SileyEric

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #6 on: March 15, 2011, 10:10:24 AM »

I took a look at the YouTube videos of Moshe Katz.  His techniques look like a mish-mash of Krav Maga and more traditional, jujitsu-type movements.  He does not move explosively or demonstrate the technique "live," as Krav Maga instructors usually do.

The handgun from behind video, in particular, shows a Krav Maga technique, but it is not done properly.  Mr. Katz does not turn and penetrate far enough with his left foot, does not twist hard to control the weapon while throwing a big elbow, and the take-away is not done powerfully.

I didn't recognize some of the techniques at all.  This does not mean that they are bad or won't work, only that many of the movements do not fall into the mainstream Krav Maga curriculums.  Without getting into a debate about what the "real" Krav Maga is, my opinion is that any qualified instructor through KMWW, Krav Maga Alliance, IKMA, KM Global should be able to show and teach many of these techniques more effectively.
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whitewolf

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #7 on: March 15, 2011, 03:10:40 PM »

Siley- i for one appreciate your honesty in the review of Mr Katz vidios-R/S WW
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ShooterMMA

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #8 on: March 19, 2011, 02:55:04 AM »

I can see that he didn't have not one krav maga instructor in his MA background, yet he is teaching krav maga.
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whitewolf

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #9 on: March 19, 2011, 08:48:32 AM »

Dont know if  Mr Katz is authoentic or  not but he looks a little weak- ;D WW
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Wizard

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #10 on: March 21, 2011, 09:25:31 PM »

There's a guy here in MI who's an instructor under Katz, went to train with him in Israel.  I went to a seminar when he was here, wasn't bad but quite basic.  What I understand, which may or may not be accurate, is that Katz trained under Itay Gil.  If true, he'd be legit as a practitioner but who knows about his character.  there, all I know.  And, don't really care
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Combative1

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #11 on: August 23, 2011, 10:03:28 AM »

Hello,

I am a friend of both Moshe Katz and Itay Gil.  It is true that Moshe is not a "student" of Itay's any longer.  However, he still goes to Jerusalem and trains/works out at the Protect gym on occasion.

I find it interesting that the person who was making the original accusations in this thread posted photos of both he AND his wife on their business facebook page in less than 72 hours after his mass email (posted above) was disseminated.  I also find it interesting that his entire business website was remade in less than a week, it would almost seem as though this person had it pre-made and ready to go with Itay's name posted all over the place BEFORE the alleged event.  Maybe?

Many people have found Itay "unobtainable" without ever having made an effort to approach him directly.  Some of those people have then signed on with Moshe's org in order to gain access to Itay then switched!  It's pretty laughable really.

I should probably also point out that Moshe and Itay's BUSINESS separation was a mutual decision.  They have separate ideals with the directions they wish to go with training and they have differing philosophies regarding business operation.  It is their private business and so I will not share what they have EACH told me first hand.

Lastly, may I please address the misunderstanding and misstatement the original poster placed here?  Moshe's Phase 1 Instructor is not much different than KMWW or any other org which use a 5 day training course for certification.  Moshe sends DVD's with the material that a Phase 1 is supposed to know.  He then requires a person to host or attend a seminar, he then evaluates them and assigns them a belt rank.  Since he only makes a couple of US tours a year, the belt ranks help him keep track of where the person was last time he saw them.  However!!!!  a person MUST have a Black Belt in another system before being granted a Phase 1 and prior to testing with him.  Early on this was not the case, but as with any organization there are lessons to be learned along the way; I am sure Mr. Hochheim can relate to that.  So many revisions have been made along the way, and revisions of revisions and so on.

Moshe was with Itay for 18+/- years as a student.  He does not show a lot of his methods explosively in video because his purpose is not to show but to teach.  He even occasionally uses a YouTube link to send out to his members in order to instruct some small part of a "technique" which is being commonly misunderstood.  It is not to boost his ego or show what he can do.  Granted, he is less dynamic than others, he sometimes talks more than is needed, but his sincere desire is to get the material into the hands of his clients for a price FAR below what others may offer.  It is not to undercut anyone, BUT to balance with those who require exorbitant prices for inferior non-gross motor based training.

When Itay first remade the methods used by YAMAM it was to make it more gross motor oriented than common Krav Maga methods.  Moshe has continued in the same vein BUT works with all sorts of soccer moms, college co-eds, etc. as well as Law Enforcement, Tactical, Military and yes Special Forces - he was recently brought back to the US right after going home from a tour by an SF group.  So he has a very broad perspective from which to develop skill sets which will work for a 90 lbs college kid all the way 200 lbs SRT operator.

I hope this clarifies this for anyone who just wants an unbiased look at Mr. Katz.

One finally closing thought.....  Is it only me or do you also find it strange that as of right now, while I type this, the "flatfoot" that posted this has only posted twice in this forum?  OH and they were both in this thread with only one message..... Was it because he had a specific motive to discredit Moshe to Mr. Hocheim's readers!?!

I guess we can all just add that to the list of things that make us go hmmmm......
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Flatfoot6568

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2011, 01:42:05 PM »

Combative1
Considering you have been attached to Katz for several years and continue your affiliation with him, I find your evaluation to be very biased indeed. As a fellow LEO, who even contacted me the following day to see if I was ok, your instincts should tell you that something was not right in this situation.

I have nothing but respect for what you do down in the Southwest and were one of the "members" I considered a friend prior to this mess. But slamming me or the situation is inconsiderate. Katz is a member on this forum. We all know he is lurking around. He is welcome to speak with me anytime or to respond to anything here.
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SileyEric

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #13 on: August 26, 2011, 11:24:02 AM »


Moshe was with Itay for 18+/- years as a student.  He does not show a lot of his methods explosively in video because his purpose is not to show but to teach.  He even occasionally uses a YouTube link to send out to his members in order to instruct some small part of a "technique" which is being commonly misunderstood.  It is not to boost his ego or show what he can do.  Granted, he is less dynamic than others, he sometimes talks more than is needed, but his sincere desire is to get the material into the hands of his clients for a price FAR below what others may offer.  It is not to undercut anyone, BUT to balance with those who require exorbitant prices for inferior non-gross motor based training.

When Itay first remade the methods used by YAMAM it was to make it more gross motor oriented than common Krav Maga methods.  Moshe has continued in the same vein BUT works with all sorts of soccer moms, college co-eds, etc. as well as Law Enforcement, Tactical, Military and yes Special Forces - he was recently brought back to the US right after going home from a tour by an SF group.  So he has a very broad perspective from which to develop skill sets which will work for a 90 lbs college kid all the way 200 lbs SRT operator.

I hope this clarifies this for anyone who just wants an unbiased look at Mr. Katz.


One of the first things that Krav Maga Instructors learn in the very first instructor certification is how to teach by demonstrating at speed or "live."  This is an integral teaching method, since we need to get students operating at-speed quickly.  Part of teaching the technique is showing what it looks like and moving explosively.  Every good Krav Maga teacher I've seen, regardless of organization they come from, are able to show this.  Moshe Katz did not, in the videos that are online.

This whole thread started out strangely, with a personal story about an affair, death in the family, all that.  I don't know that any of this makes Moshe Katz a fraud at the level of the Wagners and his ilk.  This is more of a discussion of technical differences.

There had been a link posted that showed Moshe Katz defending a pistol in his mid-section, and driving his shoulder down into it.  He mentions that no one else does this, and the reason might be this - it's not a good  idea, in my opinion.  I think the post and link were removed before I could respond.  I'll share the details if it is put back up.
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SileyEric

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #14 on: August 26, 2011, 11:36:23 AM »

One other thing - when I see terms like "gross motor movement" and "non-gross motor movement" applied to Krav Maga and read that someone thinks they are doing things that no one else is doing, I get suspicious.

Let me tell you one thing about Krav Maga, which I've practiced for over 11 years and teach professionally - it ain't complicated.  The people I know who are making strides in developing the system are not doing it with secret knowledge or little, unique, bullshit changes to technique.

The notable developments are in integrating firearms training (more U.S. tactical shooting than Israeli-style), constantly changing and adding scenarios and training drills, and focusing on tactics in training after making it through all the techniques.  There are also changes we have made based upon criminal tactics in the U.S. that evolve, which Karate teachers from Israel probably don't know about.

At one point in this country, it was probably tough to find a real Krav Maga guy to bring in for a seminar.  It's not tough in 2011.  There are really good guys all over the country, who have been through the ups and downs and ins and outs of the organizations and have stayed true to what we're supposed to be doing...
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Combative1

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #15 on: September 12, 2011, 09:31:38 PM »

Okay, so this has turned into a mud slinging match like every other Krav Maga forum on the planet.  I won't further it....

But to set the record straight, I am not from the Southwest and I am not in Law Enforcement.  I don't know anyone who uses the name Flatfoot for anything so you must have me mistaken for someone else.

Moshe and Itay neither one claim
"secret" anything, but they do use a more gross motor based application of Krav Maga principles.  It's not an argument, it's an assessment after working with nearly every major org currently in the US at least by attending their seminars or otherwise.

I wish you all well with your training.  You have chosen to do what you do, I have chosen to do what Moshe and Itay do.  I simply like it better.
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ShooterMMA

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #16 on: September 14, 2011, 09:47:13 AM »

@Combative1

Can u pls write me, does Moshe teach krav maga or is he just using the name of krav maga?
Who is his krav maga instructor (not jiu jitsu), can u write the connection to Imi?
The time of so many special krav maga's is past.

And the story of "this way" of krav maga is the best, real one, more gross motor remind me on wing chun story and how they are invincible.

« Last Edit: September 14, 2011, 10:09:26 AM by ShooterMMA »
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Combative1

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2011, 12:04:55 AM »

I sent you each others email, via email.
Did you not get it?

Hock
(our PM system never has worked well)

I just checked my email, negative on receipt.

Unless MMA is desperate for the info, I can wait.  I prefer anonymity anyway.  THX for trying though.

Too much ego gets put into these kinds of debates and I prefer to do what I know works for me and let others do the same.

BTW, just a small side note.... I know Mr. Katz met you a time or two at Dr. Beasley's events and appreciates your perspective a lot.  He has been known to quote you on a number of occasions and proudly displays at least one certificate of attendance (in his gym) from your training sessions.

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ShooterMMA

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #18 on: October 31, 2011, 03:39:38 AM »

Quote
Itay is a legit military/YAMAM instructor but his training is in Gadi Skornick's kenpojitsu and military combatives. Thats what he teaches along with a mix of some Krav Maga techniques. It is not Krav Maga as taught by Imi Lichtenfeld and his students
                                                                          Many israelis were instructors in IDF, that does not make them KM instructors.               
Quote
Itay Gil gave Katz a 4th degree black belt in JU-JITSU, not Krav Maga and his 5th degree was given to him in a honorary ceremony by a group of karate black belts. Moshe Katz has NEVER practiced real Krav Maga
« Last Edit: October 31, 2011, 03:55:41 AM by ShooterMMA »
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arnold

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #19 on: November 10, 2011, 04:32:52 AM »

The whole thing sounds like a drink that should have an umbrella in it!
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I leave you idiots alone for 5 minutes and I come back and you're all dancing around like a bunch of Kansas City faggots
you're all a bunch of slack jawed faggots around here, this stuff will make you a sexual tyrannosaurus, just like me!

seldomseen

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #20 on: November 15, 2011, 11:03:39 AM »


     Everything else aside, the guy should have sunk a DEEP rear naked choke on this guy (the one banging his wife), to see if his Krav defense really worked. Or better yet, stood 20 feet away with a handgun and ended his life.

       Jason
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Combative1

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #21 on: February 24, 2012, 12:36:36 PM »

Quote
Itay is a legit military/YAMAM instructor but his training is in Gadi Skornick's kenpojitsu and military combatives. Thats what he teaches along with a mix of some Krav Maga techniques. It is not Krav Maga as taught by Imi Lichtenfeld and his students
                                                                         
Many israelis were instructors in IDF, that does not make them KM instructors.               
Quote
Itay Gil gave Katz a 4th degree black belt in JU-JITSU, not Krav Maga and his 5th degree was given to him in a honorary ceremony by a group of karate black belts. Moshe Katz has NEVER practiced real Krav Maga

Just an FYI @ShooterMMA - Itay did indeed go thru' the Krav Maga instructors course while in the IDF.  Also, his unit "Paratrooper Recon" received MUCH advanced KM training and often under Eli Avikzar, Imi's successor and the co-developer of the "civilian Krav Maga" seen all over the place.  Imi did not "invent" all of KM as purported by those who stand to make money off such claims.  Imi's fame, for lack of a better word, really came from his introduction of KM to the civilian sector and making it belt ranked, adding a martial arts flare to it.  The principles of KM were established before Imi entered the then called Palestine.  KAPAP, as it was then called, was a system of concepts and principles.  Each level of the Haganah were granted more and more info.  For instance Palmach - a sort of special forces counter terror unit, did much more with learning to build "grease gun" type weapons from plumbing parts and other materials than did those who just patrolled and reported.  This same concept has spilled over into the modern IDF, in fact all of Israel's many level of Polise, Security, etc. 

I suppose my point is, Imi's civilian KM is not all that KM has to offer.  Eli Avikzar was a strong proponent of putting more "grappling and throwing" into advanced military KM because he (commissioned by Imi) earned Black Belts in Aikido and Judo.  He saw weak areas in the KM of the day and tried to strengthen them.  Itay did the same when he was made the lead tactics instructor for YAMAM.  KM is supposed to be a system of concepts and principles and this is evidenced in the kaf mem (Hebrew characters for K and M) symbol popularized by the IKMA and KMWW.  The symbol is open at the top and bottom and also to the left and right of the kaf mem to symbolize that techniques flow into the system from many avenues, when they are no longer effective or the enemies of Israel find effective counters, those techniques are to flow out.  This is the definition John Whitman and Sam Sde gave at a KMWW seminar I attended in 2001, or there about.  Yet only Itay and Moshe dare to press the envelope by following this principle!!  I hear that the KM Alliance has started to modify techniques as well.  They recently put Nir Maman on their board.  Some of Nir's techniques have evolved to look much like Itay and Moshe's since he returned to and left LOTAR in Israel.  It makes me wonder if it was influenced by the fact that Itay was a senior instructor to Duvdevan (very involved at LOTAR) and that several of Moshe's students have served in Duvdevan...... maybe, maybe not.

So I would caution, before claiming that only "Imi's KM is true KM" take a look at the highest level of operators and instructors and see if they are still doing things the way they were done before Imi left the IDF.  Just a thought...... no offense intended to anyone.

You have to test everything for yourself.  What fits well for you may not for others, but just because a single source claims someone doesn't teach Krav Maga, that does not necessarily make it so.
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Hock

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #22 on: February 24, 2012, 04:53:23 PM »

I was told last week that Gil has indeed broken with Katz and that curiously ...Katz got his 5th degree in "Krav" or rather "Israeli Martial Arts"  from...Dr. Jerry Beasley? Anyone have any idea how Beasley has any authority to grant anyone anything from Israel? In any way?

Hock
« Last Edit: February 17, 2017, 12:47:35 AM by Hock »
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ShooterMMA

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Re: Moshe Katz
« Reply #23 on: March 01, 2012, 05:40:15 AM »

@Combative1

Your source is Itay, my source is boss of KM for IDF in Bahad8 and KM chief instructor for SU from Lotar. :) FYI

I'm not some kid falling on some GM, tough guy story. :)

Yes Eli Avikzar introduced aikido to curriculum, but after he left IDF all material was rearranged cos it was not that good. :)
Pls write me how long is km instructors course in IDF and what they learn there?
Anybody with MA experience can become KM "military" instructor in IDF, just that does not make them KM instructors.
How many youngsters become military KM instructors in IDF every year? Does this make them KM experts?
 
About kapap, it was for each instructor something different (more judo or more jiu jitsu or what so ever), that is why after forming of IDF they abandon kapap terminology and way of working, and created Krav Maga, to be more structured and more in line. And yes you can say that kapap is ancestor of krav maga. (not the modern kapap)

Do you know who worked in near past as instructor in reserve with paratrooper recon?
Who were the chief instructors in IDF in past? Were they all Imi's students?

Yes the techniques modifies all the time, but first be Krav Maga, then modify what ever you want! :) 

And Moshe is no KM instructor.
But you are right, the name Krav Maga is good business opportunity for any Israeli who was in IDF did some military KM training to make some easy money. 
 
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